Discussion:
Straw Poll - Support for Attack on Iran
(too old to reply)
Maria
2007-02-25 13:04:22 UTC
Permalink
Hands up then.

Me - no. For these reasons -

1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).

2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.

3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.

4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.

The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.

So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
Chris X
2007-02-25 13:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
(Snip reasons)

NO from me too !
5,999,999
2007-02-25 13:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris X
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
(Snip reasons)
NO from me too !
No. He did not say "Wipe Israel off the map". Israel has a clandestine
nuclear weapons program. Israel wiped Palestine off the map and
massacres Palestinians on a weekly basis without a whiff of
condemnation from the Zionist Occupied Governments and media of the
West.

Just today:

Israeli forces launch Nablus raid
Israeli forces are carrying out a raid across parts of the West Bank
town of Nablus, military officials say.

Witnesses say dozens of army vehicles have surrounded several
buildings, including the TWO MAIN HOSPITALS.
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-25 13:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
Whilst agreeing with most of your post, the reference to Ahmedinejad
being insane is a little unjust. He is mis-quoted by western
journalists almost everytime he speaks.
The complaints by Israel that Iran are a threat is a complete
fabrication. Whereas until recently Iran had signed up and complied
with the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, the Israelis have not.
Officially they don't even possess nuclear weapons so why should we
believe their word against that of the Iranians?
This demonisation of Iran is almost an exact replica of the Iraq
scenario and yet it seems like its unstoppable and we have learnt
nothing from previous lies of Bush, Blair and Company
Maria
2007-02-25 15:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
Whilst agreeing with most of your post, the reference to Ahmedinejad
being insane is a little unjust.
I don't think he is insane - he is prone to put a religious hat on
everything though as you can see if you watched the programme about
Rageh Omar in Tehran.
Post by a***@googlemail.com
He is mis-quoted by western
journalists almost everytime he speaks.
I agree - apparently Farsi is difficult to translate into English.
Post by a***@googlemail.com
The complaints by Israel that Iran are a threat is a complete
fabrication. Whereas until recently Iran had signed up and complied
with the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, the Israelis have not.
Officially they don't even possess nuclear weapons so why should we
believe their word against that of the Iranians?
This demonisation of Iran is almost an exact replica of the Iraq
scenario and yet it seems like its unstoppable and we have learnt
nothing from previous lies of Bush, Blair and Company
What I don't get is that the only time I can remember in history where
a country has been forced to cease and desist x activity, was when
150,000 people were wiped out in a few minutes. I don't think even
Bush is prepared to do that. :)
abelard
2007-02-25 16:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
I agree - apparently Farsi is difficult to translate into English.
what about translating lunacy into english?

regards...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
I agree - apparently Farsi is difficult to translate into English.
what about translating lunacy into english?
That's because you translate it into 'Zio-Jewry' first and then into
English -- but then you were never big on the English language to
begin with A-B-E-L-A-R-D-Y.
Ariadne
2007-02-25 18:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
Whilst agreeing with most of your post, the reference to Ahmedinejad
being insane is a little unjust. He is mis-quoted by western
journalists almost everytime he speaks.
The complaints by Israel that Iran are a threat is a complete
fabrication. Whereas until recently Iran had signed up and complied
with the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, the Israelis have not.
Israel has no need to sign. See the dates countries signed
the treaty.
Christopher
2007-02-25 14:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<snipped>

Me, no, as Rupert Murdoch, friend of Bush, Blair et al want Iran
attacked so his *news*papers can go into overdrive printing jingoistic
shite to merely sell more copy. And his *news* TV channels can report
the same shite.
Ivan
2007-02-25 14:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>

For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.

Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
Chris X
2007-02-25 15:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
Great post Ivan - it demonstrates that only subhuman scum could possibly
disagree.
Expect the "usual suspects" on this newsgroup to do just that !
abelard
2007-02-25 15:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....

the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris X
2007-02-25 15:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
The only people with a "penchant for meddling" is you and your "heroes", the
war criminals Bu$h, Bliar and Olmert, Fraudelard.
Post by abelard
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
Oh look - as expected, one of the subhumans chimes in !
Christopher
2007-02-25 16:00:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
And what 'particular brand of idiocy' does America come under?
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-25 18:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq. The longer
they couldnt find them (because they werent there) the more the aims
changed. Firstly it was to free them from the tyranny of Saddam and
then to give them wonderful democracy.
The targeting of Iran seems to be purely to destroy a country that
Israel sees as a threat. I peronally would trust Iran with nukes (even
though its pure speculation that they are trying to produce them) well
before i would trust the psychopathic (nuke possesing) Israelis
abelard
2007-02-25 18:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
Post by a***@googlemail.com
The longer
they couldnt find them (because they werent there) the more the aims
changed. Firstly it was to free them from the tyranny of Saddam and
then to give them wonderful democracy.
The targeting of Iran seems to be purely to destroy a country that
Israel sees as a threat. I peronally would trust Iran with nukes (even
though its pure speculation that they are trying to produce them) well
before i would trust the psychopathic (nuke possesing) Israelis
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris X
2007-02-25 18:48:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
ROTFLMAO ! As if your self-penned, neo-con lies from your laughable Zionazi
webshite carry any weight in the real world, Fraudy !
abelard
2007-02-25 19:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris X
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
ROTFLMAO ! As if your self-penned, neo-con lies from your laughable Zionazi
webshite carry any weight in the real world, Fraudy !
poor dear abdul...
you are thik and dishonest..and thereby irrelevant....

i doubt cooper is quite a thik as yourself...he appears to be mostly
immature....

no-one in touch with reality will take you seriously for a moment

get used to it....
your attention seeking will merely bring further mockery on yourself....

go get a job and meet people...if they'll put up with you....
or maybe j a s o n will console you
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris X
2007-02-25 19:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Chris X
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
ROTFLMAO ! As if your self-penned, neo-con lies from your laughable Zionazi
webshite carry any weight in the real world, Fraudy !
poor dear abdul...
(Snip rambling, nonsensical ad-homs)

Your surrender is accepted by the nationalist and libertarian forces on this
newsgroup, Fraudy. As it always *is* !
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Chris X
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
ROTFLMAO ! As if your self-penned, neo-con lies from your laughable Zionazi
webshite carry any weight in the real world, Fraudy !
poor dear abdul...
you are thik and dishonest..and thereby irrelevant....
i doubt cooper is quite a thik as yourself...he appears to be mostly
immature....
no-one in touch with reality will take you seriously for a moment
get used to it....
your attention seeking will merely bring further mockery on yourself....
go get a job and meet people...if they'll put up with you....
or maybe j a s o n will console you
Ahhhhh... ha, ha, ha, ha... too mush FOX News Network for you,
ABELARDY!

You've been BRAINWASHED!

You are so gullible you'd believe anything Fox News broadcasts.
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-25 21:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Chris X
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
ROTFLMAO ! As if your self-penned, neo-con lies from your laughable Zionazi
webshite carry any weight in the real world, Fraudy !
poor dear abdul...
you are thik and dishonest..and thereby irrelevant....
i doubt cooper is quite a thik as yourself...he appears to be mostly
immature....
no-one in touch with reality will take you seriously for a moment
get used to it....
your attention seeking will merely bring further mockery on yourself....
go get a job and meet people...if they'll put up with you....
or maybe j a s o n will console you
I suspected it was a dodgy url but didnt want to visit anything that
you reccommend. Chris thankfully saved me the trouble of having to
read your one-sided pro-Neocon ramble.
abelard
2007-02-25 21:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I suspected it was a dodgy url but didnt want to visit anything that
you reccommend. Chris thankfully saved me the trouble of having to
read your one-sided pro-Neocon ramble.
so....i'll put you down as another dedicated ignoramus then....
along with j a s e y and abdul....

i hope you enjoy your exalted status
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ariadne
2007-02-25 18:50:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
You not only tell lies, but appear to believe those lies. It's well
documented that 'WMD' were the the reason to invade Iraq.
you clearly don't know what the hell you are on about
http://www.abelard.org/news/politics0612.php#democrats_iraq_111206
go inform yourself
And then he can read:

http://www.2la.org/syria/iraq-wmd.php


http://www.2la.org/syria/wmd.html


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/2/230625.shtml


http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=%5CSpecialReports%...


http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1340941,00.html


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06036/649858.stm


http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2003/ss_iraq_08_25.html


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/2/230625.shtml


http://news.netscape.com/story/2006/10/16/russia-moved-some-iraq-wmd-...


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21489


http://www.nysun.com/article/24480?access=306938


http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Missing%20Iraqi%20WMD.htm
Post by abelard
--
web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-25 21:19:35 UTC
Permalink
<snipped>


.................As if .
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
the objective in irak was the removal of a lunatic and his gang....
iran is not that far gone....*by comparison with irak*...it is well
administered....
the target in iran is primarily military....and rather secondarily the
penchant for meddling abroad....
iran is also rather isolated in its particular brand of idiocy...
Ahhhhh... ha, ha, ha, ha... too mush FOX News Network, ABELARDY!

You've been BRAINWASHED!

"....Coming up next the moon is found to made of green cheese, the sky
is pink, and the earth is flat as a pool table. ...Stay tuned to
Fox."

You are so gullible you'd believe anything Fox News broadcasts.
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:13:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
<Snipped for brevity>
For me also No, for reasons given below..
Our family have Iranian friends in this country, and over the years have had
the pleasure of meeting their families who visit them here in UK on holiday.
Whilst I appreciate that some may find it difficult to believe, the average
educated Iranian family are little different to the rest of us .. mums,
dads, brothers, sisters.. so speaking not only for myself but also on behalf
of friends and family, I can say that the last thing any of us would wish to
see is Bush and his lap poodle Blair inflict onto the Iranian people, a
repetition of the kind of 'collateral damage' which they have already
visited onto thousands of innocent Iraqis.
I met some Iranians while I was in college; I also worked for an
Iranian in an electrical engineering company where I once worked. My
former auto mechanic was also Iranian. These people are, by my
assessment, just like most of us here in America as well. They have
the same values as many of us, and they tell me the anti-American
rhetoric in Iran is never taken seriously, except for government
officials and the lunatic religious fringe groups -- Islamofascist
right-wing bullshit, as it were.

I must agree with this post very strongly.

Bush is capitalizing on the misconceptions of most people about these
Iranian people. It is reported by the right-wing Zio-Nazi-Jews in and
out of Israel, that Iranians are inherently evil, and a threat to the
Western way of life -- not true at all.

Great post...!
abelard
2007-02-25 15:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
agreed....however, the junta has considerable power to remove
or silence the loon....
why do you then suppose the junta are not just using him as a
front man....and are thereby complicit and content?

i think 'we' should be at a high state of readiness to take out their
nuclear ambitions....but there is no rush as yet....
let them watch the gathering storm...and hope they have more sense
than the ex-madman of baghdad....

(i like your organised post btw)
Post by Maria
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
ok....
Post by Maria
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
all that is on offer to 'iran' as long as their junta behaves....

you did not mention their penchant for exporting weapons and
stirring nuisance
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
i think you are here confusing what western leadership thinks
with maintaining will and unity at home....
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
i'm none too keen on freelancers....but doubtless the back
channels would be informed...
Post by Maria
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maria
2007-02-25 19:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
agreed....however, the junta has considerable power to remove
or silence the loon....
why do you then suppose the junta are not just using him as a
front man....and are thereby complicit and content?
i think 'we' should be at a high state of readiness to take out their
nuclear ambitions....but there is no rush as yet....
let them watch the gathering storm...and hope they have more sense
than the ex-madman of baghdad....
(i like your organised post btw)
Post by Maria
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
ok....
Post by Maria
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
all that is on offer to 'iran' as long as their junta behaves....
you did not mention their penchant for exporting weapons and
stirring nuisance
No need, as I recognised Israel's issues with them. Ultimately this is
Israel's problem because Israel is the party mostly affected by them.
(Also Lebanon and Syria in a political manner) I recognise Israel's
need to act against them - I do not recognise the US or Britain's need
to act against them.
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
i think you are here confusing what western leadership thinks
with maintaining will and unity at home....
Are you saying that the rhetoric coming from Number 10 and the
Whitehouse is purely to garner our support for their adventures?
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
i'm none too keen on freelancers....but doubtless the back
channels would be informed...
The world is full of local conflicts - the reason they don't turn into
global wars is because the major powers let it be, or take no
interest.
The interest of the big powers can cripple a country in its pursuit of
self-defence - Israel knows that she is constantly observed to see if
breaking International law and although the US is generally supportive
(in public at least), Israel must know that the US can apply pressure
to act or desist from acting in a certain way, withdraw financial aid
or reduce diplomatic ties or even threaten abandonment. This prevents
Israel from acting in an open and honest way and acting as quickly and
decisively as is needed at times.
It seems to me that global geopolitics has had one very big effect,
which is to keep the lid on potentially explosive regional conflicts -
I view this as negative, as it is simply storing up much bigger
trouble for later, if the issue is not resolved. I would rather a
bunch of small, regional wars, where mostly military are harmed and
disputes settled, than these long-distance, long-running disputes
which are never really solved and often result in massive military
adventures, because the long-distance parties (aka US/Russia) are
really not that interested because they are too remote.
Israel too out an Iraqi nuke installation in 1984 (?) - nobody cared
or mostly even noticed, even though Iraq was allegedly our ally at the
time.
abelard
2007-02-25 19:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
you did not mention their penchant for exporting weapons and
stirring nuisance
No need, as I recognised Israel's issues with them. Ultimately this is
Israel's problem because Israel is the party mostly affected by them.
(Also Lebanon and Syria in a political manner) I recognise Israel's
need to act against them - I do not recognise the US or Britain's need
to act against them.
you may as well say that the security of 'our' aircraft carrier groups
in the area are irrelevant to uk and us interests....
israel is a reliable and secure flank....
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
i think you are here confusing what western leadership thinks
with maintaining will and unity at home....
Are you saying that the rhetoric coming from Number 10 and the
Whitehouse is purely to garner our support for their adventures?
primarily....yes....
the real objective is to get them to talk sense....then they will
doubtless get considerable western support....
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
i'm none too keen on freelancers....but doubtless the back
channels would be informed...
The world is full of local conflicts - the reason they don't turn into
global wars is because the major powers let it be, or take no
interest.
in many conflicts the west has only low level interests at stake
Post by Maria
The interest of the big powers can cripple a country in its pursuit of
self-defence - Israel knows that she is constantly observed to see if
breaking International law and although the US is generally supportive
(in public at least), Israel must know that the US can apply pressure
to act or desist from acting in a certain way, withdraw financial aid
or reduce diplomatic ties or even threaten abandonment. This prevents
Israel from acting in an open and honest way and acting as quickly and
decisively as is needed at times.
israel is best thought of as part of the western alliance...
both sides have considerable investment and interests in the alliance
Post by Maria
It seems to me that global geopolitics has had one very big effect,
which is to keep the lid on potentially explosive regional conflicts -
ok
buying time is good!
Post by Maria
I view this as negative, as it is simply storing up much bigger
trouble for later, if the issue is not resolved. I would rather a
bunch of small, regional wars, where mostly military are harmed and
disputes settled, than these long-distance, long-running disputes
which are never really solved and often result in massive military
adventures, because the long-distance parties (aka US/Russia) are
really not that interested because they are too remote.
Israel too out an Iraqi nuke installation in 1984 (?) - nobody cared
or mostly even noticed, even though Iraq was allegedly our ally at the
time.
i'm slightly askew trying to follow your drift hereabouts...
so i'll guess and give you levers!

we no longer have to worry much about russia.....
my strong impression remains that behind the rhetoric their interests
run with ours....likewise china.....

militarily there is only one serious force.....
i can see no obvious likelihood of american/allied power being challenged
in a meaningful way for decades....

western power has become that of a police force....not that of nation
state wars....
wars between serious states are nutz....and the western alliance is
clearly fully aware of that foundational fact....

our problem is with idiots using irritation tactics to gain blackmail
payoffs and idiots that sell serious weapons to loons....



regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
you did not mention their penchant for exporting weapons and
stirring nuisance
No need, as I recognised Israel's issues with them. Ultimately this is
Israel's problem because Israel is the party mostly affected by them.
(Also Lebanon and Syria in a political manner) I recognise Israel's
need to act against them - I do not recognise the US or Britain's need
to act against them.
you may as well say that the security of 'our' aircraft carrier groups
in the area are irrelevant to uk and us interests....
israel is a reliable and secure flank....
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
i think you are here confusing what western leadership thinks
with maintaining will and unity at home....
Are you saying that the rhetoric coming from Number 10 and the
Whitehouse is purely to garner our support for their adventures?
primarily....yes....
the real objective is to get them to talk sense....then they will
doubtless get considerable western support....
Post by Maria
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
i'm none too keen on freelancers....but doubtless the back
channels would be informed...
The world is full of local conflicts - the reason they don't turn into
global wars is because the major powers let it be, or take no
interest.
in many conflicts the west has only low level interests at stake
Post by Maria
The interest of the big powers can cripple a country in its pursuit of
self-defence - Israel knows that she is constantly observed to see if
breaking International law and although the US is generally supportive
(in public at least), Israel must know that the US can apply pressure
to act or desist from acting in a certain way, withdraw financial aid
or reduce diplomatic ties or even threaten abandonment. This prevents
Israel from acting in an open and honest way and acting as quickly and
decisively as is needed at times.
israel is best thought of as part of the western alliance...
both sides have considerable investment and interests in the alliance
Post by Maria
It seems to me that global geopolitics has had one very big effect,
which is to keep the lid on potentially explosive regional conflicts -
ok
buying time is good!
Post by Maria
I view this as negative, as it is simply storing up much bigger
trouble for later, if the issue is not resolved. I would rather a
bunch of small, regional wars, where mostly military are harmed and
disputes settled, than these long-distance, long-running disputes
which are never really solved and often result in massive military
adventures, because the long-distance parties (aka US/Russia) are
really not that interested because they are too remote.
Israel too out an Iraqi nuke installation in 1984 (?) - nobody cared
or mostly even noticed, even though Iraq was allegedly our ally at the
time.
i'm slightly askew trying to follow your drift hereabouts...
so i'll guess and give you levers!
we no longer have to worry much about russia.....
my strong impression remains that behind the rhetoric their interests
run with ours....likewise china.....
militarily there is only one serious force.....
i can see no obvious likelihood of american/allied power being challenged
in a meaningful way for decades....
western power has become that of a police force....not that of nation
state wars....
wars between serious states are nutz....and the western alliance is
clearly fully aware of that foundational fact....
our problem is with idiots using irritation tactics to gain blackmail
payoffs and idiots that sell serious weapons to loons....
Of course sense to you is whatever Fox news says... right ABELARDY!

You've been BRAINWASHED again!

You are so gullible... you don't get politics at all, you don't get
English either, you don't get reality or common sense.
abelard
2007-02-25 21:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason P
Of course sense to you is whatever Fox news says... right ABELARDY!
You've been BRAINWASHED again!
You are so gullible... you don't get politics at all, you don't get
English either, you don't get reality or common sense.
go blather with abdul....he likes to blather...

i do very much hope you don't imagine for one moment that
anyone will take your attention seeking seriously!
no-one could be that deranged....





though i s'pose there is still abdul
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason P
2007-02-25 20:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
agreed....however, the junta has considerable power to remove
or silence the loon....
why do you then suppose the junta are not just using him as a
front man....and are thereby complicit and content?
i think 'we' should be at a high state of readiness to take out their
nuclear ambitions....but there is no rush as yet....
let them watch the gathering storm...and hope they have more sense
than the ex-madman of baghdad....
(i like your organised post btw)
Post by Maria
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
ok....
Post by Maria
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
all that is on offer to 'iran' as long as their junta behaves....
you did not mention their penchant for exporting weapons and
stirring nuisance
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
i think you are here confusing what western leadership thinks
with maintaining will and unity at home....
I think you are confusing political rhetoric with reality.

too mush FOX News Network for you! :-)) ROTFLMAO

You've been BRAINWASHED, A-B-E-L-A-R-D-Y!

You are so gullible you'd believe anything Fox News broadcasts. Did
you know Bill O'Slimey said the earth was flat and moon is made of
cheddar cheese, just yesterday.
Post by abelard
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
i'm none too keen on freelancers....but doubtless the back
channels would be informed...
Post by Maria
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
Islamic Fire
2007-02-25 20:47:26 UTC
Permalink
I vote NO to an attack on Iran.

All countries, including Iran have a right and a duty to find clean
alternative sources of power that does not cause global warming. Every
country, including Iran has a right to use nuclear power as a source
of it energy needs.

As we see Iran has been threatened by attack by both Israel and USA,
this justifies the right for Iran to develop nuclear weapons as a form
of self defense against the aggression of these existing nuclear
powers.
abelard
2007-02-25 21:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Islamic Fire
I vote NO to an attack on Iran.
All countries, including Iran have a right and a duty to find clean
alternative sources of power that does not cause global warming. Every
country, including Iran has a right to use nuclear power as a source
of it energy needs.
iran has been offered a secure supply of nuclear fuel...
Post by Islamic Fire
As we see Iran has been threatened by attack by both Israel and USA,
this justifies the right for Iran to develop nuclear weapons as a form
of self defense against the aggression of these existing nuclear
powers.
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ariadne
2007-02-25 21:31:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Islamic Fire
I vote NO to an attack on Iran.
All countries, including Iran have a right and a duty to find clean
alternative sources of power that does not cause global warming. Every
country, including Iran has a right to use nuclear power as a source
of it energy needs.
As we see Iran has been threatened by attack by both Israel and USA,
A lie.

What else from an Islamist?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch
http://www.memri.org/
http://www.imra.org.il/
http://www.debka.com/
http://www.palestinefacts.org
http://emperors-clothes.com/bosnia/svijet.htm


http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/terrorism- obstacle to peace/palestinian
terror since 2000/palestinian violence and terrorism since september
Logician
2007-02-25 18:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
They need to nuke IRAN ASAP. If the animals there get nukes, they will
be fired in minutes.

Just nuke first and then relax.

But Bush, his comrades, and their successors will take about 2 years
to plan it, 2 years to implement, and 3 years to win the war, and they
will need about 5 trillion United States Dollars. Anyone with half a
brain could solve the problem in 24 hours.
Maria
2007-02-25 19:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Logician
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
They need to nuke IRAN ASAP. If the animals there get nukes, they will
be fired in minutes.
For what reason and to what purpose? They must know that the nation of
Iran would be fried within hours if they did such a thing.
Post by Logician
Just nuke first and then relax.
But Bush, his comrades, and their successors will take about 2 years
to plan it, 2 years to implement, and 3 years to win the war, and they
will need about 5 trillion United States Dollars.
Indeed.
Post by Logician
Anyone with half a
brain could solve the problem in 24 hours.
Well yes - the CIA* could take out Ahmedinejad and see what happens
next. (*lol)
Christopher
2007-02-25 19:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Logician
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
1) Ahmedinejad does not represent the people of Iran, but also does
not have the all-encompassing power that Saddam had, or the support of
the majority of the people of Iran, or the support of many of the
other bodies in Iran which make up the decision-making power base.
Iran is not Iraq or Saudi Arabia (but it could be...).
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
They need to nuke IRAN ASAP. If the animals there get nukes, they will
be fired in minutes.
Just nuke first and then relax.
But Bush, his comrades, and their successors will take about 2 years
to plan it, 2 years to implement, and 3 years to win the war, and they
will need about 5 trillion United States Dollars. Anyone with half a
brain could solve the problem in 24 hours.
Logician is dreaming again.
Ivan
2007-02-25 19:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Anyone with half a brain could solve the problem in 24 hours.
Sounds like you'd be ideal for the job then.
timeOday
2007-02-26 02:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Logician
They need to nuke IRAN ASAP. If the animals there get nukes, they will
be fired in minutes.
Who's the animal? As of now it's you, not Iran, openly advocating a
first strike.
Mel Rowing
2007-02-25 19:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
[ ... ]
Post by Maria
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
But countries do from time to time have 'batty leaders' Hitler was
such. Hussein was such. Stalin must have been such.

The pertinent point is that here in the West we have systems that
allow us to rid ourselves of 'batty leaders' In countries like Iran
with its theocratic democracy it's not quite so simple for the public
voice to be heard let alone be heeded.

Whatever the case, foreign governments can only deal with governments
and not people. At the end of the day, it would not be the Iranian
people who would decide whether or not missiles are going to be
launched but their 'batty leaders' It is their finger on the trigger.
Post by Maria
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
If Iran does have "a genuine energy crisis" then clearly it is of its
own making.

This issue goes right back to the nationalisation of the Anglo Iranian
Oil Company back in the 50's. At that time the expertise of the oil
companies was simply kicked out along with their employing companies.
Since then just about everyone has had a go at getting profitable oil
out of Iran. It has usually ended in tears as the result of political
volatility inside the country.

It's not governments who are needed to "assist Iran in developing new
and updated refining capability" but oil companies who have the
expertise and the capital. Fortunately that capital is privately owned
and in the interests of the owners of that capital oil companies would
expect a commercial return on it. The history of relationships between
oil companies and the various governments of Iran has been fraught
with difficulty.

The basic prerequisite of entering into a sound commercial
relationship is to have a sound commercial business reputation.
Unfortunately the peoples of this part of the world are not famous for
upholding agreements they have solemnly entered into.

Whatever the case there is no international impediment to Iran
developing a nuclear energy industry. This is a lie perpetuated by the
'batty leader' himself falling on only too receptive ears.

The issue is the enrichment of nuclear fuel which is quite a different
issue. Natural Uranium refined from the ore cannot be used in a
commercial reactor. It has first to be enriched. Provided therefore an
adequate audited supply of ready enriched nuclear fuel is available
then a nuclear power programme can go ahead.

Ahmadinejad protests that Iran has no ambitions in the direction of
nuclear armaments. He must then answer the question as to why iran
needs an enrichment capability if not for nuclear weapons? His country
would never be dependent on a single country for nuclear fuel since
there are several sources.

There is no US oil embargo against Iran as such. Rather it is a
general embargo. US law precludes US companies and their foreign
subsidaries from trading with Iran at all. This has been the case
since the Reagan years. Clearly this action has had no negative
repercussions on the US economy. Why then should the US government
change its policy in this respect? To do so would surely be tantamount
to surrender in the face of victory or, at the very least, non defeat.
If the US is to contemplate such action then it can only do so in
return for something tangible Otherwise such would become once more
another empty example of gesture politics that would inciite further
demands for concessions. Above all the US should stand firm. It the
embargo does hurt then the initiative shuld come from Iran. If it does
not then it is irrelevant.
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from watch
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
But it is the declared official policy of the Iranian government that
Iran has no military nuclear ambitions!

Are you seriously suggesting that those who Tehran openly declares to
be its enemies should sit idly by whilst it acquires such? To do so
would be a folly worse than Munich since the day approacheth whn Iran
will need to be faced down.
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-25 21:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
Hands up then.
Me - no. For these reasons -
[ ... ]
Post by Maria
2) The people of Iran want to modernise, but also rather than just
sitting there are whining about it, are actually doing it - every day
they openly defy the religious dictats of the state. This is to be
encouraged and supported, not placed under threat by the growth of
religious activists driven on by American threats. A much-needed
revolution is already taking place, but the West seems to be putting
its consideration on only one aspect of Iranian society - its' batty
'leader'.
But countries do from time to time have 'batty leaders' Hitler was
such. Hussein was such. Stalin must have been such.
The pertinent point is that here in the West we have systems that
allow us to rid ourselves of 'batty leaders' In countries like Iran
with its theocratic democracy it's not quite so simple for the public
voice to be heard let alone be heeded.
Whatever the case, foreign governments can only deal with governments
and not people. At the end of the day, it would not be the Iranian
people who would decide whether or not missiles are going to be
launched but their 'batty leaders' It is their finger on the trigger.
Post by Maria
3) Iran has a genuine energy crisis, in that it has a massively
increasing demand for refined oil, but very poor and outdated refining
capability. Given Iran's huge oil deposits, it would to me only make
sense for us in the West to stop carping on about nuclear reactors,
and assist Iran in developing new and updated refining capability.
This would involve dropping all sanctions against Iran (including the
US oil embargo) and developing the already good trade and commerce
relationships that we (and much of the rest of the world has) with
Iran.
If Iran does have "a genuine energy crisis" then clearly it is of its
own making.
This issue goes right back to the nationalisation of the Anglo Iranian
Oil Company back in the 50's. At that time the expertise of the oil
companies was simply kicked out along with their employing companies.
Since then just about everyone has had a go at getting profitable oil
out of Iran. It has usually ended in tears as the result of political
volatility inside the country.
It's not governments who are needed to "assist Iran in developing new
and updated refining capability" but oil companies who have the
expertise and the capital. Fortunately that capital is privately owned
and in the interests of the owners of that capital oil companies would
expect a commercial return on it. The history of relationships between
oil companies and the various governments of Iran has been fraught
with difficulty.
The basic prerequisite of entering into a sound commercial
relationship is to have a sound commercial business reputation.
Unfortunately the peoples of this part of the world are not famous for
upholding agreements they have solemnly entered into.
Whatever the case there is no international impediment to Iran
developing a nuclear energy industry. This is a lie perpetuated by the
'batty leader' himself falling on only too receptive ears.
The issue is the enrichment of nuclear fuel which is quite a different
issue. Natural Uranium refined from the ore cannot be used in a
commercial reactor. It has first to be enriched. Provided therefore an
adequate audited supply of ready enriched nuclear fuel is available
then a nuclear power programme can go ahead.
Ahmadinejad protests that Iran has no ambitions in the direction of
nuclear armaments. He must then answer the question as to why iran
needs an enrichment capability if not for nuclear weapons? His country
would never be dependent on a single country for nuclear fuel since
there are several sources.
There is no US oil embargo against Iran as such. Rather it is a
general embargo. US law precludes US companies and their foreign
subsidaries from trading with Iran at all. This has been the case
since the Reagan years. Clearly this action has had no negative
repercussions on the US economy. Why then should the US government
change its policy in this respect? To do so would surely be tantamount
to surrender in the face of victory or, at the very least, non defeat.
If the US is to contemplate such action then it can only do so in
return for something tangible Otherwise such would become once more
another empty example of gesture politics that would inciite further
demands for concessions. Above all the US should stand firm. It the
embargo does hurt then the initiative shuld come from Iran. If it does
not then it is irrelevant.
Post by Maria
4) If we do these things, then we stand a much greater chance of
influencing the outcome in Iran than we do by threatening mlitary
action whenever a sovereign state tries to secure it's own future in
ways which alarm the West. Iran has another problem - in a similar
position as Israel, it is surrounded by 'enemies' - US allies and
forces - Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Saudi...if Iran (and the
people of Iran) wanted to build a capable defence capability, surely
it is only because the West constantly threatens it and surrounds it
in the same way that Israel feels threatened by its geolocation. The
pragmatic long-term response to this IMV is simply to desist from watch
viewing Iran as an 'evil' enemy and give reassurances that should Iran
drop the possibility of obtaining nuclear arms, it will get security
guarantees.
But it is the declared official policy of the Iranian government that
Iran has no military nuclear ambitions!
Are you seriously suggesting that those who Tehran openly declares to
be its enemies should sit idly by whilst it acquires such? To do so
would be a folly worse than Munich since the day approacheth whn Iran
will need to be faced down.
Post by Maria
The Israel issue is seperate IMV - if Israel wants to bomb Iran
nuclear installations for her own security, then perhaps she should -
that is a local issue (at this stage). What we should not then do is
to try and influence Israel or Iran, but let that process take place
without intervention on either side, because it is about Israel's
relationship with Iran. IMV much of the instability in the world is
not caused by the threat of local conflicts, most of which might
remain small and short-lived should they be allowed to simply develop,
but which often turn into regional conflagrations due to the
alliances of heavyweight backers such as China or the US.
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own security.
I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever possible, in
order to remove the cause of the possible desire for conflict.- Hide quoted text -
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
abelard
2007-02-25 22:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....

what got you so disarranged?
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
block
2007-02-26 01:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
Post by abelard
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
abelard
2007-02-26 01:33:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
block
2007-02-26 01:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Post by abelard
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
abelard
2007-02-26 02:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
blockheadedness seems to be yours...repeat, he has no 'points'
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
block
2007-02-26 22:24:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
blockheadedness seems to be yours...repeat, he has no 'points'
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you still havent addressed coopers points and they are there you nit
gordon monohan
2007-02-26 02:50:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!

Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.

Got that? There was nothing to respond to.

That is all.
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 12:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
gordon monohan
2007-02-26 14:15:43 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
Ariadne
2007-02-26 15:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP101305

How anyone can read those lies and then claim
that they weren't said - and that they are true!
abelard
2007-02-26 18:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP101305
How anyone can read those lies and then claim
that they weren't said - and that they are true!
because their position is otherwise too obviously indefensible....
lying is a way of life to these people...as you full well recognise

regards....
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 18:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
How anyone can read those lies and then claim
that they weren't said - and that they are true!
because their position is otherwise too obviously indefensible....
lying is a way of life to these people...as you full well recognise
regards....
I wonder if you keep a straight face when you accuse me of telling
lies? I would imagine you are so good at deception that you do ......
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 18:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ariadne
2007-02-26 19:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP101305
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 19:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...-
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research. Stick
your decrepit urls up your decrepit arse.
Ariadne
2007-02-26 21:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.

cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Another monkey with a PC!
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 23:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC
It is propaganda when independent translations differ dramatically
with the Zionists interpretation.
Ariadne
2007-02-27 00:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> > |> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
|> > cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
|> > Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC
It is propaganda when independent translations differ dramatically
with the Zionists interpretation.
Which Iranians are Zionists, cooperscoop?
Iranians translated the madman's speech from Farsi.

I think you need to follow abelard's reading plan.
Jason P
2007-02-27 05:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> > |> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
|> > cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
|> > Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC
It is propaganda when independent translations differ dramatically
with the Zionists interpretation.
Which Iranians are Zionists, cooperscoop?
Iranians translated the madman's speech from Farsi.
I think you need to follow abelard's reading plan.- Hide quoted text -
I think you need start getting together and forming a moderated SCI
NG, where all you nice Jewish folks can hang out and play
circumcission bingo.

..How about a reality show for Jews: "The Moile Hut?"

..or a new Yiddish game show: "Name that Foreskin"
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-27 08:53:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> > |> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
|> > cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
|> > Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC
It is propaganda when independent translations differ dramatically
with the Zionists interpretation.
Which Iranians are Zionists, cooperscoop?
Iranians translated the madman's speech from Farsi.
I think you need to follow abelard's reading plan.- Hide quoted text -
Well its different to what most other learned translators seem to
think.Was it a Jewish Iranian?
Ariadne
2007-02-27 10:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> > |> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
|> > cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
|> > Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC
It is propaganda when independent translations differ dramatically
with the Zionists interpretation.
Which Iranians are Zionists, cooperscoop?
Iranians translated the madman's speech from Farsi.
I think you need to follow abelard's reading plan.- Hide quoted text -
Well its different to what most other learned translators seem to
think.Was it a Jewish Iranian?
I am so pleased you read it and the answer is undoubtedly
- NO.
Jason P
2007-02-27 04:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ariadne
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points.
And has no brain.
That's a bit rich coming from someone who can barely put a sentence
together and uses endless urls to attempt to justify their rabid
propaganda.
Ah! Can't take on the points. cooperscoop!
|> >http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?
Page=countries&Area=iran&ID=SP1...
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I refuse to visit Zionist propaganda sites, even for research.
They can't do without the scatology, these keyboard
jihadists.
cooperscoop calls translations from Farsi by
Iranians "Zionazi - how ignorant is that! - propaganda"!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Another monkey with a PC!- Hide quoted text -
You would know, Zippy...!
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 18:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
abelard
2007-02-26 19:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....

why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 19:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
You regard your own words as being evidence that you were right and i
was wrong?
You're insane.
abelard
2007-02-26 19:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
You regard your own words as being evidence that you were right and i
was wrong?
You're insane.
the words to which you were referred are the legal foundation of the
action in irak...

just how stupid can you be!!!
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 23:28:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
You regard your own words as being evidence that you were right and i
was wrong?
You're insane.
the words to which you were referred are the legal foundation of the
action in irak...
Any legal foundation there may have been are totally discredited. The
media were fed lie after lie by corrupt officials on both sides of the
Atlantic. If you insist on referring to the legal position then surely
the people that have lied should now be be brought to book for the
shameful deception they created which resulted in the death of
hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives as well as US and UK servicemen
and women.
For you to try to defend these liars with your pathetic 'legal
foundation' crap is no surprise.
abelard
2007-02-26 23:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
You regard your own words as being evidence that you were right and i
was wrong?
You're insane.
the words to which you were referred are the legal foundation of the
action in irak...
Any legal foundation there may have been are totally discredited.
you're a fantasist and an idiot...
rbu
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason P
2007-02-27 05:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
why should anyone take your empty babble with any seriousness
You regard your own words as being evidence that you were right and i
was wrong?
You're insane.
the words to which you were referred are the legal foundation of the
action in irak...
Any legal foundation there may have been are totally discredited.
you're a fantasist and an idiot...
You're a retard A-B-E-L-A-R-D-Y..!
Chris X
2007-02-26 19:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
you lied about the conditions for the attack on madsam....
you refused to correct your lies....
He has no "lies" to correct, Fraudy. Andy has spoken nothing but the truth.
You, on the other hand .....
gordon monohan
2007-02-26 20:01:03 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.

HTH

GM
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 23:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 00:19:54 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.

You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.

BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?

GM

--

"there are questions about whether [insert terrorist group] could attract
new recruits when the most salient characteristic of America’s
opponents is a buzzing cloud of corpse-flies."
block
2007-02-27 00:33:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked
perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of
being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A
delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities
applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think
appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by
the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted
to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general.
I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
--
"there are questions about whether [insert terrorist group] could attract
new recruits when the most salient characteristic of America's
opponents is a buzzing cloud of corpse-flies."
You forgot to mention the murdering bush who galavants around
the globe for his strategic oil interests in the name of "terrorism"
who actively tries to sustain these third world shitholes
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 01:17:42 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:33:52 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked
perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of
being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A
delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities
applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet
more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think
appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by
the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted
to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general.
I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
--
"there are questions about whether [insert terrorist group] could attract
new recruits when the most salient characteristic of America's
opponents is a buzzing cloud of corpse-flies."
You forgot to mention the murdering bush who galavants around
the globe for his strategic oil interests in the name of "terrorism"
who actively tries to sustain these third world shitholes
I think we ought to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert
them to Christianity......Oh wait, somebody else has already said that.

Personally, i can't wait for the Iraq to Texas pipeline to be finished.

Are ya'll getting one too?
Islamic Fire
2007-02-27 01:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
I think we ought to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert
them to Christianity......Oh wait, somebody else has already said that.
Personally, i can't wait for the Iraq to Texas pipeline to be finished.
Are ya'll getting one too?
This sums up the attitude of USA to the Middle East, hence a good
reason for Muslim countries there to develop nuclear weapons to
counter the attempt by USA to destroy Islamic culture.
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 02:49:00 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Feb 2007 17:47:56 -0800, in uk.politics.misc "Islamic Fire"
Post by Islamic Fire
Post by gordon monohan
I think we ought to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert
them to Christianity......Oh wait, somebody else has already said that.
Personally, i can't wait for the Iraq to Texas pipeline to be finished.
Are ya'll getting one too?
This sums up the attitude of USA to the Middle East, hence a good
reason for Muslim countries there to develop nuclear weapons to
counter the attempt by USA to destroy Islamic culture.
And the diplomatic idiots in the West are quite liable to let them do it.
Your "culture" is engineering it's own destruction.

Now, we never finished our little question and answer session. Why is that?
Did you realize how stupid you were beginning to look....mr FIRE?
I am keen on continuing to deconstruct your fallacy of a belief system. Get
your local imams and mullahs and other 7th century fools like blockhead to
help you out.

......I am waiting.
Islamic Fire
2007-02-27 03:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
And the diplomatic idiots in the West are quite liable to let them do it.
Your "culture" is engineering it's own destruction.
It is good that the diplomats will allow Iran the freedom to produce
nuclear energy, I look forward to ALL countries using nuclear energy
so reducing the impact upon global warming.

As to debates about belief systems, I prefer to debate this on a topic
that deals with the subject, this thread is about a potential attack
upon Iran, I wish to keep to the subject of this thread.
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 03:25:49 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Feb 2007 19:08:57 -0800, in uk.politics.misc "Islamic Fire"
Post by Islamic Fire
Post by gordon monohan
And the diplomatic idiots in the West are quite liable to let them do it.
Your "culture" is engineering it's own destruction.
It is good that the diplomats will allow Iran the freedom to produce
nuclear energy, I look forward to ALL countries using nuclear energy
so reducing the impact upon global warming.
Oooh...ooh...he's playing the GW card, now. That explains how you know more
than the EU3 and the UN, how? Just last Wednesday the UN had another
deadline go by for Iran to stop producing enriched uranium.
Post by Islamic Fire
As to debates about belief systems, I prefer to debate this on a topic
that deals with the subject, this thread is about a potential attack
upon Iran, I wish to keep to the subject of this thread.
Perhaps that can be arranged. You ran like a dog (you know, a black one
with white spots over his eyes) from the last one.

You know it is nearing 4am in England at Southend-on-Sea, yet it is only
nearing 8pm US PST, and i am somewhere in between so this is the last
message tonight.......

GM
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-27 08:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:33:52 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked
perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of
being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A
delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities
applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet
more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on
their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think
appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by
the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted
to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them
by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general.
I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
--
"there are questions about whether [insert terrorist group] could attract
new recruits when the most salient characteristic of America's
opponents is a buzzing cloud of corpse-flies."
You forgot to mention the murdering bush who galavants around
the globe for his strategic oil interests in the name of "terrorism"
who actively tries to sustain these third world shitholes
I think we ought to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert
them to Christianity......Oh wait, somebody else has already said that.
Personally, i can't wait for the Iraq to Texas pipeline to be finished.
Are ya'll getting one too
You really are losing the plot. Which Western country have Muslims
militarily invaded?
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 13:39:34 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Feb 2007 00:54:56 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:33:52 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked
perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of
being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A
delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities
applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet
more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on
their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think
appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by
the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted
to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them
by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west"
rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general.
I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
--
"there are questions about whether [insert terrorist group] could attract
new recruits when the most salient characteristic of America's
opponents is a buzzing cloud of corpse-flies."
You forgot to mention the murdering bush who galavants around
the globe for his strategic oil interests in the name of "terrorism"
who actively tries to sustain these third world shitholes
I think we ought to invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert
them to Christianity......Oh wait, somebody else has already said that.
Personally, i can't wait for the Iraq to Texas pipeline to be finished.
Are ya'll getting one too
You really are losing the plot. Which Western country have Muslims
militarily invaded?
"Militarily" implies uniforms, chains of command, distinctive
hardware.........

The islamists are cowards and don't do it that way. They have found that
every time in recent history that they face the "West" on a battlefield that
they ignominiously lose. So they fight a war of guerilla warfare. To hit
the high points, you have Bali, NYC, Washington, Madrid, London, Mumbai and
innumerable others -- all the murder of innocents -- though the site
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ should give you an idea of the extent of
their recent worldwide deadly attacks. And actually, "the West" is a bit of
shorthand misnomer here because islam is at war with the whole world that is
not islam -- check your koran, which your buddy islamic-fire tells me is the
infallible word of allah and the core book of rules of all true muslims.
And see if you can determine the difference in Dar es islam and Dar es harb.

Of course, the part where I said "we should invade their countries...." was
said in jest, by me and by the original sayer, but you think it was spoken
both times in deadly seriousness...go ahead and think that, it does not
bother me..

You are not unlike the ayatollah khameini who said:
"There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in
Islam."

Would you like to discuss ancient history? I can do that too. For pure
blood lust, no religion in history can hold a candle to islam -- the fiery
sword of God.


GM
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-27 08:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
You really do need to educate yourself. This house of cards was indeed
held together by a madman. A madman that was supported for long
periods of time and even (allegedly) assisted in gaining power by the
very people who ended up being the 'liberators'.
What you dont admit is that if Saddam were still in power today,
there would be many more Iraqis alive. He couldn't possibly have
killed as many as Bush and Blair have.The Iraqi health service (not as
you claim like a third world country) would still be realtively ok
(even taking into consideration the murderous sanctions).
Do you live in Israel by any chance? It's just that you have such an
unhealthy fear of people from Arabic countries.
By the way it's not 'my' newspeak.... Only muppets like you watch
mainstream news.
Snakes are no problem if they are kept at a safe distance away.
I haven't heard any of you hypocrites comment on Israels stash of
nukes yet.................
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 13:46:01 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Feb 2007 00:39:55 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 15:44:25 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
Who mentioned the third world? Iraq was , before we meddled in their
affairs a very advanced Middle Eastern country The point is we are
responsible for the carnage in Iraq and i am fearful we will cause
similar, if not worse disaster in Iran.
Don't try to justify your lust for blood by creating imaginary threats.
Irak was a house of cards held together by a madman. It was held together
by a murdering, torturing, raping, killing, warring madman you would like
to have seen stay in power. It was a third world country, or in your
newspeak "developing" - in other words, a third world shithole.
You can be as responsible as you like, but don't try to put it on me. In
your cotton wool life, you don't know what "blood lust" is, to you it is no
more than a pejorative phrase but maybe if you hang around with your persian
and arabian buds some more you will find out what it really is.
BTW, all snakes are not poisonous, so do you feel lucky?
GM
You really do need to educate yourself. This house of cards was indeed
held together by a madman. A madman that was supported for long
periods of time and even (allegedly) assisted in gaining power by the
very people who ended up being the 'liberators'.
What you dont admit is that if Saddam were still in power today,
there would be many more Iraqis alive. He couldn't possibly have
killed as many as Bush and Blair have.The Iraqi health service (not as
you claim like a third world country) would still be realtively ok
(even taking into consideration the murderous sanctions).
Do you live in Israel by any chance? It's just that you have such an
unhealthy fear of people from Arabic countries.
By the way it's not 'my' newspeak.... Only muppets like you watch
mainstream news.
Snakes are no problem if they are kept at a safe distance away.
I haven't heard any of you hypocrites comment on Israels stash of
nukes yet.................
You are an illiterate idiot.

You are fed the pablum of lies of your masters' created "truths" and gobble
them down for your unholy sustenance.

I have no "fear". You are into transference as you realize how untenable
your position is and that your life would be forfeit under Sha'ria.

GM

block
2007-02-27 00:02:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
an illegal war in iraq based on dodgy propaganda hardly
constitutes blaming the west for any problems does it,
and you buy it all like all the lemmings
gordon monohan
2007-02-27 00:44:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:02:38 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 10:38:59 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On 26 Feb 2007 04:19:47 -0800, in uk.politics.misc
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:00:48 -0000, "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked
perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by
the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
Uniess you didn't notice it is the West that are the aggressors.....
I said "standard-issue rant". As I said, you had no points
I have plenty of points. The fact is you cannot dispute them. A witch-
hunt is well and truly underway regarding Iran, and the Neo-cons will
find a reason to attack them. Which pathetic excuse will they use to
trick the general public into supporting this crime? After the bare-
faced lies with regards Iraq, Mary Poppins could well come into the
eqation this time.
You have put forth no points on the topic that are worthy of any
consideration. All your rant does is attempt to blame the West for any
problems, almost all past, in Iran and in the third world in general. I do
withdraw the statement that it was standard though, it has some particularly
disingenuous parts. The bare-faced lies are all your own here.
HTH
GM
an illegal war in iraq based on dodgy propaganda hardly
constitutes blaming the west for any problems does it,
and you buy it all like all the lemmings
What's with you boy? Are you one of cooper's sock puppets or are you in
love with him. Don't be shy now, most people understand a man loving a man.

GM
block
2007-02-26 23:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by gordon monohan
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:56:42 -0000, in uk.politics.misc "block"
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by block
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
and coopers points ??? your the disarranged one!
don't be silly blockhead....he has no points....
other that his determination to remain ignorant
and coopers points ??? .. denial is your speciality
Yo! Blockedbrain!
Cooper had no points. He had a standard-issue "blame the west" rant.
Got that? There was nothing to respond to.
That is all.
no i havent got that, open your head
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 12:17:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
Why do you tell so many lies?
abelard
2007-02-26 13:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by abelard
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently.
my my....you're not just unusually ignorant then....
you are seriously angry at the world....
what got you so disarranged?
Why do you tell so many lies?
evasive beggar ain't you
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mel Rowing
2007-02-25 22:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Really?

Who or what removed Hussein? Galtieri? Hitler? Mussolini? Milosevic?

Destroyed the Soviet Union?

Appeasement no doubt!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently
And what you have ignored is the fact that this claptrap has nothing
whatsoever to do with the issue as to why Iran that is "not a threat
to any nation" despite the fact that it has declared itself thus,
needs a uranium enrichment facility.

That question takes some answering.

Whilst you are about it you can ask why declared enemies of Iran (by
the Iranians themselves) should stand by placidly whilst a self sworn
enemy arms itself sufficiently to inflict considerable damage in the
region.

Rest assured It's not about to happen!
block
2007-02-26 01:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Some posters on here , Rowling included would have looked perfectly at
home in Nazi Germany almost 70 years ago. The delusion of being able
to remove unsavoury leaders in the west is just that ...A delusion.
Really?
Who or what removed Hussein? Galtieri? Hitler? Mussolini? Milosevic?
Destroyed the Soviet Union?
Appeasement no doubt!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Democracy is the same policies with different personalities applying
them.
The rest of your post is totally unconvincing.
What is convincing is that you and your kind lust for yet more
innocent people to die and to get your corporate hands on their
natural resources. Hide this behind any excuse you think appropriate
but it changes nothing , Iran are not a threat to any nation.
The last time they were involved in a war it was promoted by the very
countries who have invaded Iraq recently. Even if they wanted to , it
would take years for them to produce nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, they
have probably hundreds of nukes that could be fired at them by
Israel, who don't even officially admit to possessing them.
It is ignored by the likes of you ....Very conveniently
And what you have ignored is the fact that this claptrap has nothing
whatsoever to do with the issue as to why Iran that is "not a threat
to any nation" despite the fact that it has declared itself thus,
needs a uranium enrichment facility.
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
Post by Mel Rowing
That question takes some answering.
Whilst you are about it you can ask why declared enemies of Iran (by
the Iranians themselves) should stand by placidly whilst a self sworn
enemy arms itself sufficiently to inflict considerable damage in the
region.
Rest assured It's not about to happen!
despite this so called retorit it seems others are doing the actual
damage
Mel Rowing
2007-02-26 09:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
And what you have ignored is the fact that this claptrap has nothing
whatsoever to do with the issue as to why Iran that is "not a threat
to any nation" despite the fact that it has declared itself thus,
needs a uranium enrichment facility.
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
So you don't believe that Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off
the map" then? Oh ! ! I was forgetting! that was a mistransaltion!
Everybody but him says so!

You don't beieve the images of flags and effigies being burned?

You don't believe the threats to unleash "thousands" oF suicide
mombers against US targets?

You don't believe that Iran supplies Shiite militia in Iraq or Hamas
or Hezbullah?

There's not much we can do with you then can we?
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
That question takes some answering.
Whilst you are about it you can ask why declared enemies of Iran (by
the Iranians themselves) should stand by placidly whilst a self sworn
enemy arms itself sufficiently to inflict considerable damage in the
region.
Rest assured It's not about to happen!
despite this so called retorit it seems others are doing the actual
damage.
Before you unjustifiably call others "thicko" perhaps you should learn
to speak and write your own language. Start by compiling sentences
that make complete sense, just like you were taught at school (or were
you "away" that day?)

You are yet another 24 carat idiot. This group is becoming full of
them. Resign yur self to the fact that you are simply too stupid to
indulge in any meaningful discussion.
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 12:34:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
And what you have ignored is the fact that this claptrap has nothing
whatsoever to do with the issue as to why Iran that is "not a threat
to any nation" despite the fact that it has declared itself thus,
needs a uranium enrichment facility.
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
So you don't believe that Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off
the map" then? Oh ! ! I was forgetting! that was a mistransaltion!
Everybody but him says so!
Get your facts right Rowing, he didn't say that at all and you know
it. Tell a lie enough times and the sheep will accept it , don't
expect me to.
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't beieve the images of flags and effigies being burned?
Big deal , flags and effigies....
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe the threats to unleash "thousands" oF suicide
mombers against US targets?
No
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe that Iran supplies Shiite militia in Iraq or Hamas
or Hezbullah?
No and you have no evidence either, its pure speculation wrapped up as
fact by the Israeli friendly media.
Post by Mel Rowing
There's not much we can do with you then can we?
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
That question takes some answering.
Whilst you are about it you can ask why declared enemies of Iran (by
the Iranians themselves) should stand by placidly whilst a self sworn
enemy arms itself sufficiently to inflict considerable damage in the
region.
The only ones inflicting damage (proven) on the area are the US and
allies invasion.
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Mel Rowing
Rest assured It's not about to happen!
despite this so called retorit it seems others are doing the actual
damage.
Before you unjustifiably call others "thicko" perhaps you should learn
to speak and write your own language. Start by compiling sentences
that make complete sense, just like you were taught at school (or were
you "away" that day?)
Diverting the argument to grammatical errors is sure sign of defeat at
well as lack of idea.
Post by Mel Rowing
You are yet another 24 carat idiot. This group is becoming full of
them. Resign yur self to the fact that you are simply too stupid to
indulge in any meaningful discussion.
Personal inults too.
Mel Rowing
2007-02-26 13:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by block
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
So you don't believe that Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off
the map" then? Oh ! ! I was forgetting! that was a mistransaltion!
Everybody but him says so!
Get your facts right Rowing, he didn't say that at all and you know
it. Tell a lie enough times and the sheep will accept it , don't
expect me to.
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't beieve the images of flags and effigies being burned?
Big deal , flags and effigies....
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe the threats to unleash "thousands" oF suicide
mombers against US targets?
No
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe that Iran supplies Shiite militia in Iraq or Hamas
or Hezbullah?
No and you have no evidence either, its pure speculation wrapped up as
fact by the Israeli friendly media.
Ah ! ! ! That "Israeli friendly media" (I'm surprised you didn't say
Jooooze) that seeks to distort and misrepresent in furtherence of some
obscure agenda whilst at the same time destroying their own raison
d'etre (French old boy!)

Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
There's not much we can do with you then can we?
There's not much we can do with you either it would seem Coops!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
Before you unjustifiably call others "thicko" perhaps you should learn
to speak and write your own language. Start by compiling sentences
that make complete sense, just like you were taught at school (or were
you "away" that day?)
Diverting the argument to grammatical errors is sure sign of defeat at
well as lack of idea.
Well I'm usually quite tolerant in this respect. However, when I have
to read something three times before I can work out whether he is
supporting my argument or not something needs to be said. At first I
thought he was castigating you!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You are yet another 24 carat idiot. This group is becoming full of
them. Resign yourself to the fact that you are simply too stupid to
indulge in any meaningful discussion.
Personal insults too.
Aye and you can wear that hat as well.
block
2007-02-26 23:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by block
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
So you don't believe that Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off
the map" then? Oh ! ! I was forgetting! that was a mistransaltion!
Everybody but him says so!
Get your facts right Rowing, he didn't say that at all and you know
it. Tell a lie enough times and the sheep will accept it , don't
expect me to.
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't beieve the images of flags and effigies being burned?
Big deal , flags and effigies....
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe the threats to unleash "thousands" oF suicide
mombers against US targets?
No
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You don't believe that Iran supplies Shiite militia in Iraq or Hamas
or Hezbullah?
No and you have no evidence either, its pure speculation wrapped up as
fact by the Israeli friendly media.
Ah ! ! ! That "Israeli friendly media" (I'm surprised you didn't say
Jooooze) that seeks to distort and misrepresent in furtherence of some
obscure agenda whilst at the same time destroying their own raison
d'etre (French old boy!)
Of course Coops! Don't worry about it!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
There's not much we can do with you then can we?
There's not much we can do with you either it would seem Coops!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
Before you unjustifiably call others "thicko" perhaps you should learn
to speak and write your own language. Start by compiling sentences
that make complete sense, just like you were taught at school (or were
you "away" that day?)
Diverting the argument to grammatical errors is sure sign of defeat at
well as lack of idea.
Well I'm usually quite tolerant in this respect. However, when I have
to read something three times before I can work out whether he is
supporting my argument or not something needs to be said. At first I
thought he was castigating you!
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Mel Rowing
You are yet another 24 carat idiot. This group is becoming full of
them. Resign yourself to the fact that you are simply too stupid to
indulge in any meaningful discussion.
Personal insults too.
Aye and you can wear that hat as well.
how big is your ego today??

aye
block
2007-02-26 23:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
And what you have ignored is the fact that this claptrap has nothing
whatsoever to do with the issue as to why Iran that is "not a threat
to any nation" despite the fact that it has declared itself thus,
needs a uranium enrichment facility.
it has not declared itself thus you thicko
So you don't believe that Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off
the map" then? Oh ! ! I was forgetting! that was a mistransaltion!
Everybody but him says so!
You don't beieve the images of flags and effigies being burned?
You don't believe the threats to unleash "thousands" oF suicide
mombers against US targets?
You don't believe that Iran supplies Shiite militia in Iraq or Hamas
or Hezbullah?
There's not much we can do with you then can we?
Post by block
Post by Mel Rowing
That question takes some answering.
Whilst you are about it you can ask why declared enemies of Iran (by
the Iranians themselves) should stand by placidly whilst a self sworn
enemy arms itself sufficiently to inflict considerable damage in the
region.
Rest assured It's not about to happen!
despite this so called retorit it seems others are doing the actual
damage.
Before you unjustifiably call others "thicko" perhaps you should learn
to speak and write your own language. Start by compiling sentences
that make complete sense, just like you were taught at school (or were
you "away" that day?)
You are yet another 24 carat idiot. This group is becoming full of
them. Resign yur self to the fact that you are simply too stupid to
indulge in any meaningful discussion.
insults and petty observation, you are a fine example lol.
speaking of grammar check your own message you fool
Ivan
2007-02-25 23:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own
security. I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever
possible, in order to remove the cause of the possible desire for
conflict.
It looks like the Iranians may soon have the capability to be able to launch
their own peaceful communication satellites < http://www.tiny.cc/H50CU >
whilst their good friends and oil customers the Chinese have recently
acquired the capability of shooting 'em down... what is that the Chinese
say.. 'may you live in interesting times' :o)
a***@googlemail.com
2007-02-26 12:41:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which includes
us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her own
security. I am in favour of building riendships with Iran wherever
possible, in order to remove the cause of the possible desire for
conflict.
It looks like the Iranians may soon have the capability to be able to launch
their own peaceful communication satellites <http://www.tiny.cc/H50CU>
whilst their good friends and oil customers the Chinese have recently
acquired the capability of shooting 'em down... what is that the Chinese
say.. 'may you live in interesting times' :o)
Compelling evidence of military intent ......Not. What is compelling
is the amount of USA ships in the region and the constant chest
thumping of various American government officials. You can keep saying
Iran are threatening as much as you like, the evidence doesnt back you
up.
I also notice you make no comment about Israels illegal possession of
nukes.
Ivan
2007-02-26 13:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@googlemail.com
Post by Ivan
Post by Maria
So I am against a military strike on Iran by the West (which
includes us), but indifferent to one undertaken by Israel for her
own security. I am in favour of building riendships with Iran
wherever possible, in order to remove the cause of the possible
desire for conflict.
It looks like the Iranians may soon have the capability to be able
to launch their own peaceful communication satellites
<http://www.tiny.cc/H50CU> whilst their good friends and oil
customers the Chinese have recently acquired the capability of
shooting 'em down... what is that the Chinese say.. 'may you live in
interesting times' :o)
Compelling evidence of military intent ......Not. What is compelling
is the amount of USA ships in the region and the constant chest
thumping of various American government officials. You can keep saying
Iran are threatening as much as you like, the evidence doesnt back you
up.
I also notice you make no comment about Israels illegal possession of
nukes.
You obviously didn't bother to read my previous post then, which would have
given you some inkling of where I stand on what I believe to be the
stupidity in picking a fight with Iran.

Wasn't it LBJ who said that "it's better to have these people inside the
tent with you pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in".. this approach
has worked very well post World War two with Germany and Japan (and leaving
some rhetoric aside) also appears to be working relatively well with our old
adversaries Russia and China.
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