Discussion:
What Alcohol Does that Smoking Doesn't
(too old to reply)
Maria
2005-12-24 13:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.

It can be directly responsible for

marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.

Smoking can cause

Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.

And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Maria
2005-12-24 13:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
Missed out long term unemployment.
Magnus
2005-12-24 13:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
Agreed.
Post by Maria
It can be directly responsible for
Should read "If abused, it can be...."
Frinkenstein
2005-12-24 14:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
Missed out long term unemployment.
Impotence and sterility in men (women too probably).
--
Good morning, ma'am, good afternoon, sir.
It passed noon while I was speaking so
that was technically accurate.
Talby
2005-12-25 02:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Personally I believe that it's the other way around - unemployent leads to
alcoholism. I expect life is a mixture of both. I honestly believe work is
good for the soul, within reason (shame about the captialist system).

http://www.soberrecovery.com
Mike Cawood, HND BIT
2005-12-24 13:43:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Ignore all this and have a few drinks, as long as you aren't driving.
Regards Mike.
Maria
2005-12-24 13:52:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:43:52 -0000, "Mike Cawood, HND BIT"
Post by Mike Cawood, HND BIT
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Ignore all this and have a few drinks, as long as you aren't driving.
Regards Mike.
There's nothing wrong with a few drinks - that's not the issue!
Energumen
2005-12-24 13:53:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Excuse me if I go off on somewhat of a tangent. People say that
homosexuality is wrong because it is unnatural. Some say it is damaging to
the social fabric, and has unacceptable risk of disease. Now, drinking
alcohol is clearly unnatural. It is something that the human body was not
originally designed / evolved to do. It also clearly has large negative
social consequences and is damaging to the physical health of the individual
person who does it.

Now homosexuality may or be not unnatural. Let's say for the sake of
argument that it is. Why is drinking alcohol viewed entirely differently
from homosexuality when it ticks all the boxes of what those who oppose
homosexuality say is wrong about homosexuality?
Frinkenstein
2005-12-24 14:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Very well said, Maria. Also note all the jokiness in the media about
'drunkenness' and the 'hilarious' consequences of it...
--
Good morning, ma'am, good afternoon, sir.
It passed noon while I was speaking so
that was technically accurate.
Smack
2005-12-24 16:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frinkenstein
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Very well said, Maria. Also note all the jokiness in the media about
'drunkenness' and the 'hilarious' consequences of it...
I can't say I've noticed that...indeed quite the opposite as they seem
obsessed with 'binge drinking'

Anyone remember the huge fuss just a couple of weeks ago about the new
licensing act and how it would cause the end of the world?

Let's talk about smoking for a moment:

A half of all smokers will die from the habit.

Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) is terribly disabling and
takes thirty years of gradually increasing ill health to kill you.

COPD is, in the next few years likely to overtake heart disease and
cancer as the biggest killer in the developed world.

90% of COPD is entirely caused by cigarette smoking.

As for not employing smokers I think a private company has the right to
pick whoever they wish to work for them.
Harry The Horse
2005-12-24 17:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smack
As for not employing smokers I think a private company has the right
to pick whoever they wish to work for them.
I disagree. With the HRA there is a general right of privacy and arguably
any company that seeks to prohibit employees from engaging in certain lawful
activities during their private time has breached that right to privacy.
Smack
2005-12-24 16:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frinkenstein
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Very well said, Maria. Also note all the jokiness in the media about
'drunkenness' and the 'hilarious' consequences of it...
I can't say I've noticed that...indeed quite the opposite as they seem
obsessed with 'binge drinking'

Anyone remember the huge fuss just a couple of weeks ago about the new
licensing act and how it would cause the end of the world?

Let's talk about smoking for a moment:

A half of all smokers will die from the habit.

Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) is terribly disabling and
takes thirty years of gradually increasing ill health to kill you.

COPD is, in the next few years likely to overtake heart disease and
cancer as the biggest killer in the developed world.

90% of COPD is entirely caused by cigarette smoking.

As for not employing smokers I think a private company has the right to
pick whoever they wish to work for them.
Maria
2005-12-25 10:28:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 14:23:46 +0000, Frinkenstein
Post by Frinkenstein
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Very well said, Maria. Also note all the jokiness in the media about
'drunkenness' and the 'hilarious' consequences of it...
Seems to have great entertainment value, judging by the number of
programmes devoted to the display of drunken behaviour!
Fred
2005-12-24 16:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Tthe cumulative effect of alcohol on society is catastrophic, it's
just that over years it's effects, have, to varying degrees been accepted
and allowed for.
AlanG
2005-12-24 17:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Well I'm not a smoker but I've always defended the right of smokers to
puff away as long as they aren't doing it in my face. Now you have the
nerve to attack the one little pleasure I still get out of life!!!!!!

It isn't the plonkies who want to stop you smoking you know. It's the
wannabbee blairstapo control freaks that this country seems to grow so
easily now.


Why don't you sit down, have a few drinks and a hamlet.Things will
look much better then
Maria
2005-12-25 10:21:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by AlanG
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
marital violence
the break up of relationships
the widespread neglect of and loss of responsibility for children and
(genuine) child abuse
many lead-swinging days off and hence loss of productivity
car accidents
a large proportion of vandalism,crime and violence
many thousands of wasted hours of policing
Many thousands of wasted hours and resources of hospital staff
vulnerability to attack and rape and other damage caused by an
inability to control ones fate
Heavy drinking *will* result in serious ill-health and early prolonged
death.
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Well I'm not a smoker but I've always defended the right of smokers to
puff away as long as they aren't doing it in my face. Now you have the
nerve to attack the one little pleasure I still get out of life!!!!!!
I don't want to attack anybody's pleasure - what I want to do is draw
attention to the hypocrisy in refusing to employ, or sacking people
who smoke, on the grounds that they are 'unhealthy'.
Post by AlanG
It isn't the plonkies who want to stop you smoking you know. It's the
wannabbee blairstapo control freaks that this country seems to grow so
easily now.
I know who it is, but they have immense support from the sheeple now.
Post by AlanG
Why don't you sit down, have a few drinks and a hamlet.Things will
look much better then
I can't stand cigars! I like the smell of a pipe though - I haven't
seen a pipe-smoker for ages. My grandad used to smoke a pipe and I
used to crumble up his St Bruno Rough Cut - it smelt lovely. Nice
memory that. :)
Harry The Horse
2005-12-26 12:20:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
I don't want to attack anybody's pleasure - what I want to do is draw
attention to the hypocrisy in refusing to employ, or sacking people
who smoke, on the grounds that they are 'unhealthy'.
I think we're all aware of the risks of health extremism. I don't think
it's 'hypocrisy' as the very people who are discriminating against smokers
have 'obesity' and alcohol on their list next.
John Brockbank
2005-12-24 18:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Not always? You think that people can smoke cigarettes for, say 40 years
and their health is not always affected?

I will tell you something that you might find interesting. Just about the
most common disease which people in Britain suffer from and need regular
treatment by doctors is COPD, currently over half a million British people
receive daily medication and many more need it but suffer because they have
never heard of it. More people suffer from COPD than suffer from all types
of cancer combined, and it will, in the end, kill them, and in the meantime
make them very ill. There are so many, that next time you go to the
doctor, there are certain to be some there ask them about it and see if
they think it is funny. You get to park in disabled spaces, but that is not
enough compensation. Never heard of it? Look it up and then never again
think that you can smoke and get away with it. That is just the tobacco
company's propaganda; they don't want you to know about COPD.
Maria
2005-12-25 10:40:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 18:27:09 -0000, "John Brockbank"
Post by John Brockbank
Post by Maria
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
And people have the nerve to refuse to employ smokers?
Not always? You think that people can smoke cigarettes for, say 40 years
and their health is not always affected?
Not always in a major way. There are people who have smoked very days
for 60 years and don't suffer.
Post by John Brockbank
I will tell you something that you might find interesting. Just about the
most common disease which people in Britain suffer from and need regular
treatment by doctors is COPD, currently over half a million British people
receive daily medication and many more need it but suffer because they have
never heard of it. More people suffer from COPD than suffer from all types
of cancer combined, and it will, in the end, kill them, and in the meantime
make them very ill. There are so many, that next time you go to the
doctor, there are certain to be some there ask them about it and see if
they think it is funny. You get to park in disabled spaces, but that is not
enough compensation. Never heard of it? Look it up and then never again
think that you can smoke and get away with it. That is just the tobacco
company's propaganda; they don't want you to know about COPD.
Ok, and my Gran died of emphysema due to smoking 60 player's no 6 for
50 years -she was 70 (no cancer)...Grandad smoked until he died aged
85 (heart attack) but that's not really the point. They never harmed
anyone else and it didn't effect the way they lived their lives. The
point is that some companies are now refusing to employ smokers and
someone has been sacked for smoking even though it does not affect the
way that person does their job. There is an onslaught against smokers
as if they were serious criminals, while a substance which *does*
cause serious criminality *and* a public menace to health and social
well-being is ignored. How many people have been sacked after turning
up to work with a hangover so bad they couldn't do any work? We used
to get people on a monday who would spend all morning throwing up
rather than working. How many coke-users are chucked out of a job,
even when their colleagues know they are doing it?
That's the only point I am trying to make.
It's an important point - the principle of sacking people on account
of their potential for bad health is a dangerous one - people may not
care what happens to smokers, but if they get away with it, maybe you
can be sacked because you are fat, or have HIV, or catch colds
regularly!
Hognoxious
2005-12-27 17:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Not always in a major way. There are people who have smoked very days
for 60 years and don't suffer.
There are people who have jumped from aircraft without parachutes and
survived.

Your point would be what?
arealman
2005-12-24 21:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
It can be directly responsible for
Enhancing a pleasant meal when enjoyed by sensible grown men, who grew out
of silly games like football by the age of seven.
Maria >
2005-12-25 03:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
No, alcohol is a sedative, and sedation causes the things you mention.
Look at the behaviour of tired and over tired children.
Post by Maria
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
Some people can get away with driving at maximum speed the wrong way up a
motorway. This sort of argument contributes little.
Maria
2005-12-25 10:17:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria >
Post by Maria
Alcohol is a strong mind and body-altering drug.
It can be directly responsible for
No, alcohol is a sedative, and sedation causes the things you mention.
No, it is a depressant, a biphasic, which causes stimulation initially
(with associated exhiliration, extreme emotion and loss of
inhibition), followed by sedation,or coma and death if high enough
levels are consumed.
Post by Maria >
Look at the behaviour of tired and over tired children.
What does that have to do with it?
Post by Maria >
Post by Maria
Smoking can cause
Serious ill health, but not always, even if heavy smoking.
Some people can get away with driving at maximum speed the wrong way up a
motorway. This sort of argument contributes little.
Name the harm which smoking causes apart from to the user,
remembering that passive smoking has never been proven to cause death.

And it you are going to talk crap, please post it in my name.
Harry The Horse
2005-12-26 12:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Name the harm which smoking causes apart from to the user,
remembering that passive smoking has never been proven to cause death.
When I feel like shit because I've been forced to inhale someone else's
smoke I don't need fucking proof to tell me I feel like shit.
Magnus
2005-12-26 12:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry The Horse
Post by Maria
Name the harm which smoking causes apart from to the user,
remembering that passive smoking has never been proven to cause death.
When I feel like shit because I've been forced to inhale someone else's
smoke I don't need fucking proof to tell me I feel like shit.
There's also the research carried out some time ago by the
tobacco companies (I think it was Philip Morris) and only
recently uncovered using FOI legislation, which concluded
that the sidestream smoke "enjoyed" by those around the smoker
was 4 times as toxic as that inhaled directly.
Harry The Horse
2005-12-26 12:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Magnus
Post by Harry The Horse
Post by Maria
Name the harm which smoking causes apart from to the user,
remembering that passive smoking has never been proven to cause death.
When I feel like shit because I've been forced to inhale someone
else's smoke I don't need fucking proof to tell me I feel like shit.
There's also the research carried out some time ago by the
tobacco companies (I think it was Philip Morris) and only
recently uncovered using FOI legislation, which concluded
that the sidestream smoke "enjoyed" by those around the smoker
was 4 times as toxic as that inhaled directly.
It does make one wonder what the proponents of unrestricted smoking would
accept as 'proof' that passive smoking is harmful. Given that the tobacco
companies official position that the health effects of first hand smoking
are 'unproven', I suppose the answer is 'no proof will be good enough'. I
guess non-smokers will just have to treat the demand 'prove that passive
smoking is harmful' as the canard that it is.
Hognoxious
2005-12-27 17:36:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harry The Horse
Post by Maria
Name the harm which smoking causes apart from to the user,
remembering that passive smoking has never been proven to cause death.
When I feel like shit because I've been forced to inhale someone else's
smoke I don't need fucking proof to tell me I feel like shit.
Or that it spoils the taste of food and makes your clothes stink.
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