Discussion:
Scummy State Bank Brings Good Business Down - Still support bank bailout?
(too old to reply)
Maria
2009-03-10 16:45:50 UTC
Permalink
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Maria
2009-03-10 16:47:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
Correction -RBS has called in the receivers.
aracari
2009-03-10 17:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
Correction -RBS has called in the receivers.
Did the company miss some loan repayments?
--
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

A socialist:"someone who knows everything but understands nothing"
DVH
2009-03-10 17:12:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of shares
in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing going
on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years to
build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you see
this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
Mel Rowing
2009-03-10 17:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of shares
in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing going
on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years to
build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you see
this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
The web site doesn't give many!
Maria
2009-03-10 17:19:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of shares
in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing going
on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years to
build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you see
this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
DVH
2009-03-10 17:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
It's the £40 million of "secured" work I'm concerned about.

That doesn't necessarily mean orders.

It turned over £100 million in 2006, then £60 million in 2007. It seems to
have uncertain orders for £40 million this year.

I dunno. There's just not enough information to say one way or the other.
Maria
2009-03-10 17:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
It's the £40 million of "secured" work I'm concerned about.
That doesn't necessarily mean orders.
It turned over £100 million in 2006, then £60 million in 2007. It seems to
have uncertain orders for £40 million this year.
I dunno. There's just not enough information to say one way or the other.
Fair comment - but I question the fact that they are freezing things for
£2.8 million, compared to the 'secured' orders, or even compared to the
£1m they claim they have arriving in the account this friday...
Judith Smith
2009-03-10 18:43:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:35:53 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
It's the £40 million of "secured" work I'm concerned about.
That doesn't necessarily mean orders.
It turned over £100 million in 2006, then £60 million in 2007. It seems to
have uncertain orders for £40 million this year.
I dunno. There's just not enough information to say one way or the other.
Fair comment - but I question the fact that they are freezing things for
£2.8 million, compared to the 'secured' orders, or even compared to the
£1m they claim they have arriving in the account this friday...
If you had two thousand pounds in RBS and you went to withdraw it in
six months time - and they said, sorry - we cannot pay it to you until
we get our money back from Wrekin Construction: what would you say?
Maria
2009-03-10 21:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith Smith
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:35:53 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
It's the £40 million of "secured" work I'm concerned about.
That doesn't necessarily mean orders.
It turned over £100 million in 2006, then £60 million in 2007. It seems to
have uncertain orders for £40 million this year.
I dunno. There's just not enough information to say one way or the other.
Fair comment - but I question the fact that they are freezing things for
£2.8 million, compared to the 'secured' orders, or even compared to the
£1m they claim they have arriving in the account this friday...
If you had two thousand pounds in RBS and you went to withdraw it in
six months time - and they said, sorry - we cannot pay it to you until
we get our money back from Wrekin Construction: what would you say?
I'd say they don't understand how businesses work, or how banks are
supposed to work.
M***@aol.com
2009-03-10 21:45:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith Smith
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:35:53 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Maria
Post by DVH
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of �2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of �40 million this year and �4
million next year so far, and has �1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Please give more details...
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
It's the �40 million of "secured" work I'm concerned about.
That doesn't necessarily mean orders.
It turned over �100 million in 2006, then �60 million in 2007. It seems to
have uncertain orders for �40 million this year.
I dunno. There's just not enough information to say one way or the other.
Fair comment - but I question the fact that they are freezing things for
�2.8 million, compared to the 'secured' orders, or even compared to the
�1m they claim they have arriving in the account this friday...
If you had two thousand pounds in RBS and you went to withdraw it in
six months time - and they said, sorry - we cannot pay it to you until
we get our money back from Wrekin Construction: what would you say?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
You put your finger on the core of banking. Borrowing short and
lending longish. It's what makes the economy work. Provided the
withdrawals are not for cash under the bed there is no problem since
the cash required remains in the banking system somewhere. A single
bank can usually borrow from others and also from the central bank if
short itself. It's not like individuals lending.
Mr. Spigot
2009-03-10 18:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers >>> today. The bank
RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million >>> overdraft, when the
company has orders of £40 million this year and £4 >>> million next year
so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the >>> bank has
already frozen their account and also refused an offer of shares >>> in
the company as security. >>> Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many
instances of the same thing going >>> on all over the country, destroying
business that has taken years to >>> build, and will take years to
rebuild. >>> To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still
when you see >>> this kind of thing? >> >> Please give more details... >>
Post by Maria
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
I don't think local newspapers are a particularly reliable (or unbiased)
source of information. Especially when it's open season on bankers.
Maria
2009-03-10 21:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Spigot
Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers >>> today. The bank
RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million >>> overdraft, when the
company has orders of £40 million this year and £4 >>> million next year
so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the >>> bank has
already frozen their account and also refused an offer of shares >>> in
the company as security. >>> Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many
instances of the same thing going >>> on all over the country, destroying
business that has taken years to >>> build, and will take years to
rebuild. >>> To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still
when you see >>> this kind of thing? >> >> Please give more details... >>
Post by Maria
http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/03/10/530-jobs-lost-at-builders/
I don't think local newspapers are a particularly reliable (or unbiased)
source of information. Especially when it's open season on bankers.
Much more detail here

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
Mel Rowing
2009-03-10 17:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
  bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
Maria
2009-03-10 17:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
Mel Rowing
2009-03-10 19:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
  bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
The point is that Wrekin Construction is a subsidiary of Wrekin Plc.
It would appear that its owners have taken advantage of Company Law
to ditch its limited liability company.

http://www.pr-inside.com/wrekin-construction-co-ltd-files-for-r1105850.htm

http://tinyurl.com/ddfhxo

It's a construction company. Does anything more need to be said?

RBS will lose out since at best it can only expect to get a proportion
of its £2.8m back the rest will be the subject of yet another write
down. It would not be in its interests to press for repayment if there
were any real prospect of full repayment.

Since they have taken this course of action, one can only conclude
that they can see no such prospect and to await developments would
simply be throwing good money after bad.
Maria
2009-03-10 21:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
The point is that Wrekin Construction is a subsidiary of Wrekin Plc.
It would appear that its owners have taken advantage of Company Law
to ditch its limited liability company.
http://www.pr-inside.com/wrekin-construction-co-ltd-files-for-r1105850.htm
http://tinyurl.com/ddfhxo
I'll look into it.
Post by Mel Rowing
It's a construction company. Does anything more need to be said?
Well yes frankly - this is not about house building...
Post by Mel Rowing
RBS will lose out since at best it can only expect to get a proportion
of its £2.8m back the rest will be the subject of yet another write
down. It would not be in its interests to press for repayment if there
were any real prospect of full repayment.
Since they have taken this course of action, one can only conclude
that they can see no such prospect and to await developments would
simply be throwing good money after bad.
The MOD owe Wrekin £2.8m...

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
True Blue
2009-03-11 07:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
The point is that Wrekin Construction is a subsidiary of Wrekin Plc.
It would appear that its owners have taken advantage of Company Law
to ditch its limited liability company.
http://www.pr-inside.com/wrekin-construction-co-ltd-files-for-r1105850.htm
http://tinyurl.com/ddfhxo
It's a construction company. Does anything more need to be said?
RBS will lose out since at best it can only expect to get a proportion
of its £2.8m back the rest will be the subject of yet another write
down. It would not be in its interests to press for repayment if there
were any real prospect of full repayment.
Since they have taken this course of action, one can only conclude
that they can see no such prospect and to await developments would
simply be throwing good money after bad.
The signs will be in the accounts. If there has been a trickle of assets
from Construction to plc over the last few months, then we'll know for sure.
You don't usually need to delve that deeply, though. If that has happened,
the administrators and subsequently the receivers, will wrap up the case in
double quick time. They don't hang around if there's nothing to syphon out
of a company.
Mel Rowing
2009-03-11 08:42:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
The signs will be in the accounts.
And that's the area where we are unable to go isn't it.

RBS could and would do.

It's all very well to throw out figures like £40m worth of orders. and
a couple of million owed here and there but a £40m order is not £40m
profit. How many suppliers are waiting for their money? Shares which
are unsaleable make for poor collateral.

I think it fairly safe to say that banks lend out money to make money
and not out of altruism or public spiritedness. When the prospect of
making money fades then that money has to be called back in.

I find the idea that once banks become publicly capitalised, then it
becomes more appropriate to run them non commercially. The only chance
that the taxpayer has of getting his money back is to run them
prudently in fact more prudently, apparently, than in recent years
they have been run.
aracari
2009-03-11 10:40:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by True Blue
The signs will be in the accounts.
And that's the area where we are unable to go isn't it.
RBS could and would do.
It's all very well to throw out figures like £40m worth of orders. and
a couple of million owed here and there but a £40m order is not £40m
profit. How many suppliers are waiting for their money? Shares which
are unsaleable make for poor collateral.
I think it fairly safe to say that banks lend out money to make money
and not out of altruism or public spiritedness. When the prospect of
making money fades then that money has to be called back in.
I find the idea that once banks become publicly capitalised, then it
becomes more appropriate to run them non commercially. The only chance
that the taxpayer has of getting his money back is to run them
prudently in fact more prudently, apparently, than in recent years
they have been run.
Which must surely be Brown's big dilemma, which shows up the
duplicity of his public mantras.
--
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

A socialist:"someone who knows everything but understands nothing"
Fred
2009-03-10 19:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
I suspect that even though the company had orders of £40m, it's likely that
the bank thinks it would cost more than £40m to carry out the work and
anything else that the company needs to do such as through downsizing.

The bank will have a charge on the company's assets such as their invoices
so they'll be the first to get their dosh. If they leave the company
running there's a risk the company will have less assets to liquidate. Lets
face it, after years of boom why do they need a £2.8m loan? They don't
sound lean and fit to cope with a recession.
Maria
2009-03-10 21:39:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
I suspect that even though the company had orders of £40m, it's likely that
the bank thinks it would cost more than £40m to carry out the work and
anything else that the company needs to do such as through downsizing.
The bank will have a charge on the company's assets such as their invoices
so they'll be the first to get their dosh. If they leave the company
running there's a risk the company will have less assets to liquidate. Lets
face it, after years of boom why do they need a £2.8m loan? They don't
sound lean and fit to cope with a recession.
They are owed £2.8m by the MOD....more detail here
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
nebulous
2009-03-10 22:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Fred
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
I suspect that even though the company had orders of £40m, it's likely
that the bank thinks it would cost more than £40m to carry out the work
and anything else that the company needs to do such as through
downsizing.
The bank will have a charge on the company's assets such as their
invoices so they'll be the first to get their dosh. If they leave the
company running there's a risk the company will have less assets to
liquidate. Lets face it, after years of boom why do they need a £2.8m
loan? They don't sound lean and fit to cope with a recession.
They are owed £2.8m by the MOD....more detail here
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
How much do they owe to other people?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/awcyrw

Millions of pounds owed to contractors in this one.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/azvr6m

Sounds to me as though the bank knew what they were doing. Of course the
boss of a failed firm is going to be bitter, but it looks as though a lot of
the blame is nearer to home!

Neb
Maria
2009-03-10 22:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by nebulous
Post by Maria
Post by Fred
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
I suspect that even though the company had orders of £40m, it's likely
that the bank thinks it would cost more than £40m to carry out the work
and anything else that the company needs to do such as through
downsizing.
The bank will have a charge on the company's assets such as their
invoices so they'll be the first to get their dosh. If they leave the
company running there's a risk the company will have less assets to
liquidate. Lets face it, after years of boom why do they need a £2.8m
loan? They don't sound lean and fit to cope with a recession.
They are owed £2.8m by the MOD....more detail here
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
How much do they owe to other people?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/awcyrw
Millions of pounds owed to contractors in this one.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/azvr6m
Sounds to me as though the bank knew what they were doing. Of course the
boss of a failed firm is going to be bitter, but it looks as though a lot of
the blame is nearer to home!
I don't know - the Shropshire post article explains that their OD
facility has been reduced and reduced further prior to now.
It's hard to see how any company can conduct its usual level of business
on those terms - they would have to have induced a contraction in their
business which they would have had to foresee (and most of what has
happened lately has been apparently unforseeable by anybody...) and they
would have had to have done it some time ago surely.
abelard
2009-03-10 22:32:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by nebulous
Post by Maria
Post by Fred
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If Wrekin really is a good business then it's going to be taken over
as a going concern for a song.
So what good has calling in the receivers done? What was the point?
I suspect that even though the company had orders of £40m, it's likely
that the bank thinks it would cost more than £40m to carry out the work
and anything else that the company needs to do such as through
downsizing.
The bank will have a charge on the company's assets such as their
invoices so they'll be the first to get their dosh. If they leave the
company running there's a risk the company will have less assets to
liquidate. Lets face it, after years of boom why do they need a £2.8m
loan? They don't sound lean and fit to cope with a recession.
They are owed £2.8m by the MOD....more detail here
http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/10/firms-boss-blasts-the-bankers/
How much do they owe to other people?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/awcyrw
Millions of pounds owed to contractors in this one.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/azvr6m
Sounds to me as though the bank knew what they were doing. Of course the
boss of a failed firm is going to be bitter, but it looks as though a lot of
the blame is nearer to home!
but but but......the clown is the present ceo of the bank and he
keeps claiming he's into 'rescuing' businesses and 'saving' jobs
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aracari
2009-03-10 22:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by nebulous
How much do they owe to other people?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/awcyrw
Millions of pounds owed to contractors in this one.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/azvr6m
Sounds to me as though the bank knew what they were doing. Of course the
boss of a failed firm is going to be bitter, but it looks as though a lot of
the blame is nearer to home!
but but but......the clown is the present ceo of the bank and he
keeps claiming he's into 'rescuing' businesses and 'saving' jobs
That's just slime for the BBC to read out as 'news'.
--
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

A socialist:"someone who knows everything but understands nothing"
Eliot Montevideo
2009-03-10 17:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the
receivers today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8
million overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this
year and £4 million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on
friday, but the bank has already frozen their account and also
refused an offer of shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken
years to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Why won't they lend ?

No comprendo
Maria
2009-03-10 17:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eliot Montevideo
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the
receivers today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8
million overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this
year and £4 million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on
friday, but the bank has already frozen their account and also
refused an offer of shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken
years to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Why won't they lend ?
No comprendo
Me neither...
abelard
2009-03-10 19:19:51 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:28:39 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Eliot Montevideo
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the
receivers today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8
million overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this
year and £4 million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on
friday, but the bank has already frozen their account and also
refused an offer of shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken
years to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Why won't they lend ?
No comprendo
Me neither...
how's their 'donations' to 'new' labour?
is the company in a 'new' labour marginal?

regards
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaun
2009-03-10 22:17:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
Maria
2009-03-10 22:25:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
You have to spend money to make money and that is how those who were not
taught never to borrow money have got where they are, while we still sit
around in teeny weeny houses worrying how we are going to pay
subsistence bills. (and yet nobody bats an eyelid at borrowing £100k to
buy a house - because that kind of borrowing is 'acceptable'!
I just learned all this too late in my life.
abelard
2009-03-10 22:30:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans
just for information...a common way of building business is to
sell shares to investors...
recommended read...neville shute...'slide rule'

regards
Post by Maria
- and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
You have to spend money to make money and that is how those who were not
taught never to borrow money have got where they are, while we still sit
around in teeny weeny houses worrying how we are going to pay
subsistence bills. (and yet nobody bats an eyelid at borrowing £100k to
buy a house - because that kind of borrowing is 'acceptable'!
I just learned all this too late in my life.
--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maria
2009-03-10 22:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans
just for information...a common way of building business is to
sell shares to investors...
Aye...but people will generally only invest in a sapling, not in a seed!
Post by abelard
recommended read...neville shute...'slide rule'
Thank you
Mel Rowing
2009-03-11 19:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
just for information...a common way of building business is to
    sell shares to investors...
recommended read...neville shute...'slide rule'
A share is a loan - an undated security with variable coupon!

Companies often buy back their shares from the holders.

Further if enough share holders get together, they can call in their
investment by liquidating the company or yielding to a take over bid
by another company. At an individual level, it's easier however, to
sell the hares.
Shaun
2009-03-11 19:20:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
An overdraft isn't a loan to invest in new machinery, plant or
research. It is short time loan used to help negative cashflow. The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
Mel Rowing
2009-03-11 19:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
An overdraft isn't a loan to invest in new machinery, plant or
research. It is short time loan used to help negative cashflow. The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
An interesting extract from the report in today's Telegraph:

http://tinyurl.com/ak7olx

*"It is understood that Wrekin’s problems stemmed from its suppliers
putting pressure on the company to pay its bills."*

An RBS spokesman said: “We have worked with the Wrekin Group to help
them resolve their financial difficulties.
"We have given very careful consideration to their situation and
regrettably concluded that the business was unsustainable due to the
extent of creditor pressure. We take no decision like this lightly.”

That puts a completely different complexion on the matter.

As a general rule when a company goes under administration, everything
that can be done has been done. It's just a matter of sifting the
debris for anything salvageable. Had RBS really let down a good
company, somebody else (like the parent company for instance?) would
have lifted them back up.

For them it would appear as thought it were over no matter what RBS
did.
Maria
2009-03-11 20:03:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by abelard
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
An overdraft isn't a loan to invest in new machinery, plant or
research. It is short time loan used to help negative cashflow. The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
http://tinyurl.com/ak7olx
*"It is understood that Wrekin’s problems stemmed from its suppliers
putting pressure on the company to pay its bills."*
An RBS spokesman said: “We have worked with the Wrekin Group to help
them resolve their financial difficulties.
"We have given very careful consideration to their situation and
regrettably concluded that the business was unsustainable due to the
extent of creditor pressure. We take no decision like this lightly.”
That puts a completely different complexion on the matter.
As a general rule when a company goes under administration, everything
that can be done has been done. It's just a matter of sifting the
debris for anything salvageable. Had RBS really let down a good
company, somebody else (like the parent company for instance?) would
have lifted them back up.
For them it would appear as thought it were over no matter what RBS
did.
You seem to have taken a vague comment (excuse) by RBS as gospel -
Wrekin asked Mandelson to intervene months ago because they could
foresee a problem with RBS cutting their OD facility down, and he has
done nothing to help.
The government crows on about spending taxpayer's money to keep
businesses afloat and also for public projects in order to stimulate the
economy. FYI Wrekin was the company contracted by our council (they do a
lot of public works) to rebuild half the town - work started just before
Christmas, so they have removed all the pavements and dug up the land -
now the site has been abandoned. It seems that RBS would not even take
into account that the company had valuable local government contracts. I
wonder how much council tax will have to go up next year to cover the
cost of obtaining a new contractor to finish the job? Or will we just
have to live with a half demolished market square?
RBS better have an effing good excuse for what they have done, but I
doubt we will ever get to hear the details.
Mel Rowing
2009-03-11 20:25:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
As a general rule when a company goes under administration, everything
that can be done has been done. It's just a matter of sifting the
debris for anything salvageable. Had RBS really let down a good
company, somebody else (like the parent company for instance?) would
have lifted them back up.
For them it would appear as thought it were over no matter what RBS
did.
You seem to have taken a vague comment (excuse) by RBS as gospel -
Wrekin asked Mandelson to intervene months ago because they could
foresee a problem with RBS cutting their OD facility down, and he has
done nothing to help.
And neither should he!

It is the task of government to help business as a whole (if that be
possible) If we have reached the stage where every individual business
falling on hard times can turn to government, then we have inaugurated
a sort of commercial welfare state and we shall be in this mess for
ever. The weak must fall by the wayside so that the strong may
prevail.

As regards your former comment, I must admit to struggling over this.
It's difficult to get any useful information. Have you, for instance,
tried looking at the website of Wrekin Construction and it's parent
group Wrekin Group Plc (which survives) Very difficult to glean any
useful information.
Post by Maria
The government crows on about spending taxpayer's money to keep
businesses afloat and also for public projects in order to stimulate the
economy. FYI Wrekin was the company contracted by our council (they do a
lot of public works) to rebuild half the town - work started just before
Christmas, so they have removed all the pavements and dug up the land -
now the site has been abandoned. It seems that RBS would not even take
into account that the company had valuable local government contracts. I
wonder how much council tax will have to go up next year to cover the
cost of obtaining a new contractor to finish the job? Or will we just
have to live with a half demolished market square?
RBS better have an effing good excuse for what they have done, but I
doubt we will ever get to hear the details.
Maria
2009-03-11 20:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
As a general rule when a company goes under administration, everything
that can be done has been done. It's just a matter of sifting the
debris for anything salvageable. Had RBS really let down a good
company, somebody else (like the parent company for instance?) would
have lifted them back up.
For them it would appear as thought it were over no matter what RBS
did.
You seem to have taken a vague comment (excuse) by RBS as gospel -
Wrekin asked Mandelson to intervene months ago because they could
foresee a problem with RBS cutting their OD facility down, and he has
done nothing to help.
And neither should he!
It is the task of government to help business as a whole (if that be
possible) If we have reached the stage where every individual business
falling on hard times can turn to government, then we have inaugurated
a sort of commercial welfare state and we shall be in this mess for
ever. The weak must fall by the wayside so that the strong may
prevail.
I agree with that - my whole objection is based on the premise that we
should not have bailed out banks in the first place. It is because we
have that I am cross that they are now acting like this. When I
discussed it with you lot, the answer was that it was necessary to bail
them out to protect jobs and companies from collapse - you wanted to
save Jaguar which is *not* a viable company, but which has now been
given a £27m grant.
Please make up your minds - do you want to save banks - for what
purpose? Do you want to save businesses - for what purpose, and which ones?
Post by Mel Rowing
As regards your former comment, I must admit to struggling over this.
It's difficult to get any useful information. Have you, for instance,
tried looking at the website of Wrekin Construction and it's parent
group Wrekin Group Plc (which survives) Very difficult to glean any
useful information.
I'm not sure why they would even publish that kind of information on
their website.
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
The government crows on about spending taxpayer's money to keep
businesses afloat and also for public projects in order to stimulate the
economy. FYI Wrekin was the company contracted by our council (they do a
lot of public works) to rebuild half the town - work started just before
Christmas, so they have removed all the pavements and dug up the land -
now the site has been abandoned. It seems that RBS would not even take
into account that the company had valuable local government contracts. I
wonder how much council tax will have to go up next year to cover the
cost of obtaining a new contractor to finish the job? Or will we just
have to live with a half demolished market square?
RBS better have an effing good excuse for what they have done, but I
doubt we will ever get to hear the details.
What about our market place?!
PeterSaxton
2009-03-11 20:58:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
As a general rule when a company goes under administration, everything
that can be done has been done. It's just a matter of sifting the
debris for anything salvageable. Had RBS really let down a good
company, somebody else (like the parent company for instance?) would
have lifted them back up.
For them it would appear as thought it were over no matter what RBS
did.
You seem to have taken a vague comment (excuse) by RBS as gospel -
Wrekin asked Mandelson to intervene months ago because they could
foresee a problem with RBS cutting their OD facility down, and he has
done nothing to help.
And neither should he!
It is the task of government to help business as a whole (if that be
possible) If we have reached the stage where every individual business
falling on hard times can turn to government, then we have inaugurated
a sort of commercial welfare state and we shall be in this mess for
ever. The weak must fall by the wayside so that the strong may
prevail.
I agree with that - my whole objection is based on the premise that we
should not have bailed out banks in the first place. It is because we
have that I am cross that they are now acting like this. When I
discussed it with you lot, the answer was that it was necessary to bail
them out to protect jobs and companies from collapse - you wanted to
save Jaguar which is *not* a viable company, but which has now been
given a £27m grant.
Please make up your minds - do you want to save banks - for what
purpose? Do you want to save businesses - for what purpose, and which ones?
Post by Mel Rowing
As regards your former comment, I must admit to struggling over this.
It's difficult to get any useful information. Have you, for instance,
tried looking at the website of Wrekin Construction and it's parent
group Wrekin Group Plc (which survives) Very difficult to glean any
useful information.
I'm not sure why they would even publish that kind of information on
their website.
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Maria
The government crows on about spending taxpayer's money to keep
businesses afloat and also for public projects in order to stimulate the
economy. FYI Wrekin was the company contracted by our council (they do a
lot of public works) to rebuild half the town - work started just before
Christmas, so they have removed all the pavements and dug up the land -
now the site has been abandoned. It seems that RBS would not even take
into account that the company had valuable local government contracts. I
wonder how much council tax will have to go up next year to cover the
cost of obtaining a new contractor to finish the job? Or will we just
have to live with a half demolished market square?
RBS better have an effing good excuse for what they have done, but I
doubt we will ever get to hear the details.
What about our market place?!
Can't somebody else finish it?
Maria
2009-03-11 21:05:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterSaxton
Post by Maria
What about our market place?!
Can't somebody else finish it?
I suppose that depends if the council has already paid money to Wrekin,
how much they will get back, if any, and if they have any money left in
the pot.
Our council has increased council taxes by 4.5% so they can stick the
surplus in the bank. They are all mad.
PeterSaxton
2009-03-12 10:28:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by PeterSaxton
Post by Maria
What about our market place?!
Can't somebody else finish it?
I suppose that depends if the council has already paid money to Wrekin,
how much they will get back, if any, and if they have any money left in
the pot.
Whether they get any money back or not they should finish the work on
way or another.
Post by Maria
Our council has increased council taxes by 4.5% so they can stick the
surplus in the bank. They are all mad.
I was reading about the pensions that the public sector is committed
to paying. There was another report how relatively soon there will be
one pensioner for every working age person.

I can see some real problems for pensioners in the future. I don't
expect working people will be happy to pay a lot of their taxes to
fund pensions. I don't see the money put into "pension funds" being
sufficient.
Alang
2009-03-12 15:09:48 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:28:16 -0700 (PDT), PeterSaxton
Post by PeterSaxton
Post by Maria
Post by PeterSaxton
Post by Maria
What about our market place?!
Can't somebody else finish it?
I suppose that depends if the council has already paid money to Wrekin,
how much they will get back, if any, and if they have any money left in
the pot.
Whether they get any money back or not they should finish the work on
way or another.
Post by Maria
Our council has increased council taxes by 4.5% so they can stick the
surplus in the bank. They are all mad.
I was reading about the pensions that the public sector is committed
to paying. There was another report how relatively soon there will be
one pensioner for every working age person.
I can see some real problems for pensioners in the future. I don't
expect working people will be happy to pay a lot of their taxes to
fund pensions. I don't see the money put into "pension funds" being
sufficient.
Raise the basic tax allowance to 10000 and raise income tax to 40%.
Should at least balance the public sector pensions a bit. All those ex
coppers/teachers/civil servants will have to stick one holiday a year
then
Mel Rowing
2009-03-11 22:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Mel Rowing
It is the task of government to help business as a whole (if that be
possible) If we have reached the stage where every individual business
falling on hard times can turn to government, then we have inaugurated
a sort of commercial welfare state and we shall be in this mess for
ever. The weak must fall by the wayside so that the strong may
prevail.
I agree with that - my whole objection is based on the premise that we
should not have bailed out banks in the first place.
This widely used term "bailing out" seems to leave some in a state of
misunderstanding. I will bet you that the shareholders of these banks
don't feel very "bailed out" They have all but been wiped out and it
will be years before the recover these losses. What the government
has done is effectively and in some cases actually taken a stake in
these banks. This stake will become more valuable in the years to come
when once more it will be returned to the private sector.

If this does not happen, then that means that the banking system is
never going to recover and that the "bailout money" would not be worth
the paper it is printed on and that we are all doomed to a very
uncertain old age.

That view of course discounts the short term consequences of a
collapse of the banking system.
Post by Maria
It is because we
have that I am cross that they are now acting like this.
It is alleged that banks got into the position they are now in because
they behaved irresponsibility. If this is the case, then bailout could
only be considered provided the banks mended their ways and began to
operate as banks not so long ago did operate - responsibly.

We must resist the temptation of seeing today's state sponsored banks
as social funds. They are businesses and should be operated as such
and better than they have been operated of late.
Post by Maria
When I discussed it with you lot, the answer was that it was necessary to bail
them out to protect jobs and companies from collapse - you wanted to
save Jaguar which is *not* a viable company, but which has now been
given a £27m grant.
Please make up your minds - do you want to save banks - for what
purpose? Do you want to save businesses - for what purpose, and which ones?
If you have ever placed a piece of plastic in an ATM you should
understand why. What would you do if it gave you the card back
without any money and the door of the building was very firmly bolted?
What would you as the shops ran out of stock because solvent or not
they couldn't pay their suppliers who couldn't pay their hauliers who
couldn't pay for their fuel and so on.

Where would your employer (if you still had a job) obtain the cash to
pay you if it were locked up in a failed bank?

Money is the lifeblood of commerce and it is the banking system that
pumps it round.

Those who say the banks should have been allowed to fail just do not
understand what they are suggesting. In face some banks have failed an
the shareholder owners of those businesses have paid the price as they
should. If society allowed these banks also to fail to function then
it would be cutting off its nose to spite its face.
Post by Maria
What about our market place?!
It is no part of RBS's function to facilitate the provision of a
market place. If these projects are as lucrative as implied and there
is enough profit in the jobs to pay off RBS including interest charges
as well as all other creditors who it would appear were also hovering
then there should be no difficulty in these straitened times of
getting an alternative contractor on a more secure financial base to
complete the work probably under rather than over budget.

Many companies would be delighted to take this work if only to tide
them over to better times.
Maria
2009-03-11 21:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
As regards your former comment, I must admit to struggling over this.
It's difficult to get any useful information. Have you, for instance,
tried looking at the website of Wrekin Construction and it's parent
group Wrekin Group Plc (which survives) Very difficult to glean any
useful information.
What makes you think that Wrekin PLC survives?

http://www.wrekin.co.uk/
Ronald Raygun
2009-03-11 23:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
FYI Wrekin was the company contracted by our council (they do a
lot of public works) to rebuild half the town - work started just before
Christmas, so they have removed all the pavements and dug up the land -
now the site has been abandoned. ... Or will we just
have to live with a half demolished market square?
You should try coming to Edinburgh, hen, where we've been living with
a half dug up city centre for many months and are due to continue doing
so for many more months to come. We patiently await the inevitable
announcement that the project to build a tram system has run out of
money and will be abandoned.

For the benefit of those who don't know, most of the works in progress
have nothing to do directly with building tracks for the trams to run
on. Yet. These are preparatory work to move all the underground
stuff out of the way (sewage, water, and gas pipes, power and phone
cables, etc) so that if they ever need to be repaired, they won't need
to dig holes smack in the middle of a tram route, bringing the whole
system to a halt for a week.
Maria
2009-03-11 19:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:25:40 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
An overdraft isn't a loan to invest in new machinery, plant or
research.
I know that...
Post by abelard
It is short time loan used to help negative cashflow.
Yes - which is why so many big businesses use them isn't it?
Post by abelard
The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
The assertion is that this is a short-term cashflow problem, so how can
you know that they are spending more than they are earning?
Ronald Raygun
2009-03-11 23:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
The assertion is that this is a short-term cashflow problem, so how can
you know that they are spending more than they are earning?
Because that's what "cashflow problem" means.
Maria
2009-03-11 23:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ronald Raygun
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
The
company in question is spending more than it earns and has no cash
saved to cover the difference.
The assertion is that this is a short-term cashflow problem, so how can
you know that they are spending more than they are earning?
Because that's what "cashflow problem" means.
But all businesses need cashflow assistance at times - most of the time
it is not considered terminal. The business was in profit last year.
Doesn't that matter?
If businesses are not to use overdrafts to assist cashflow then are they
all supposed to operate in the black all the time?
M***@aol.com
2009-03-11 20:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of �2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of �40 million this year and �4
million next year so far, and has �1m due in the bank on friday, but the
�bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
You have to spend money to make money and that is how those who were not
taught never to borrow money have got where they are, while we still sit
around in teeny weeny houses worrying how we are going to pay
subsistence bills. (and yet nobody bats an eyelid at borrowing �100k to
buy a house - because that kind of borrowing is 'acceptable'!
I just learned all this too late in my life.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Maria is 100% right. The economy devleoped because of credit obtained
by borrowing short and lending long and the possibility of gearing
your investment. A remarkable innovation. But the long has often had
strings attached in that it can be called in at any time. Other
countries have sustained business better.

However most businesses are not successful so Maria need to chide
herself for not taking risk.

I know an IT specialist who borrowed. Twenty years later he works on
his own. It's safer and he the skill to charge a lot.
M***@aol.com
2009-03-11 20:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@aol.com
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of 2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of 40 million this year and 4
million next year so far, and has 1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
You have to spend money to make money and that is how those who were not
taught never to borrow money have got where they are, while we still sit
around in teeny weeny houses worrying how we are going to pay
subsistence bills. (and yet nobody bats an eyelid at borrowing 100k to
buy a house - because that kind of borrowing is 'acceptable'!
I just learned all this too late in my life.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Maria is 100% right. The economy devleoped because of credit obtained
by borrowing short and lending long and the possibility of gearing
your investment. A remarkable innovation. But the long has often had
strings attached in that it can be called in at any time. Other
countries have sustained business better.
However most businesses are not successful so Maria need to chide
herself for not taking risk.
I know an IT specialist who borrowed. Twenty years later he works on
his own. �It's safer and he the skill to charge a lot.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Should of course have said Maria need NOT chide herself.
Maria
2009-03-11 20:12:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@aol.com
Post by M***@aol.com
Post by Maria
Post by Shaun
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:45:50 +0000, Maria
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of 2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of 40 million this year and 4
million next year so far, and has 1m due in the bank on friday, but the
bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken years
to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
If its such a successful business why can it only survive on a loan
that can legally be called in at any time ?
All businesses survive on loans - and so does the government.
I know it's hard for people to grasp this, because we were all of ouro
generation, brought up to believe that borrowing money is bad, but
nothing would ever start, develop or grow without initial and ongoing
investment. Businesses borrow - they pay interest, when the good times
come and the account goes into the black, banks use that money to
develop their business.
You have to spend money to make money and that is how those who were not
taught never to borrow money have got where they are, while we still sit
around in teeny weeny houses worrying how we are going to pay
subsistence bills. (and yet nobody bats an eyelid at borrowing 100k to
buy a house - because that kind of borrowing is 'acceptable'!
I just learned all this too late in my life.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Maria is 100% right. The economy devleoped because of credit obtained
by borrowing short and lending long and the possibility of gearing
your investment. A remarkable innovation. But the long has often had
strings attached in that it can be called in at any time. Other
countries have sustained business better.
However most businesses are not successful so Maria need to chide
herself for not taking risk.
I know an IT specialist who borrowed. Twenty years later he works on
his own. �It's safer and he the skill to charge a lot.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Should of course have said Maria need NOT chide herself.
Maria is chiding herself for just having discovered that most businesses
are not successful. :-/
Looks like it's growing carrots and collecting eggs in Bulgaria for me.
Not that I mind - it might be a relief to get out of this bloody madhouse.
DB.
2009-03-16 20:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on Friday, but
the bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken
years to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Hi, Maria - thanks for your posts, which are always of interest.

I take it you've now seen the newly-breaking story of the "Wrekin
ruby"?
I'll not give you a link - you'll find several if you Google "Wrekin
ruby".

Apparently Wrekin Construction issued £11?million worth of shares a
year before it collapsed into administration in exchange for an item
described as "probably the world's most expensive ruby."
Accounts show that the Wrekin ruby, known as the "Gem of Tanzania" was
bought in exchange for £11?million worth of shares from Tamar Group, a
Derbyshire construction firm which later took overall control of Wrekin.
The concern for the Wrekin's workers that you've expressed in your posts
is understandable - but whatever is this all about. Seems murky,
dunnit?
--
DB.
DB.
2009-03-16 23:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by DB.
Post by Maria
A local company, Wrekin Construction, has had to call in the receivers
today. The bank RBS is demanding instant repayment of £2.8 million
overdraft, when the company has orders of £40 million this year and £4
million next year so far, and has £1m due in the bank on Friday, but
the bank has already frozen their account and also refused an offer of
shares in the company as security.
Sick sick sick. I suspect there are many instances of the same thing
going on all over the country, destroying business that has taken
years to build, and will take years to rebuild.
To those of you who supported the bank bailout, do you still when you
see this kind of thing?
Hi, Maria - thanks for your posts, which are always of interest.
I take it you've now seen the newly-breaking story of the "Wrekin
ruby"?
I'll not give you a link - you'll find several if you Google
"Wrekin ruby".
Apparently Wrekin Construction issued £11million worth of shares a
year before it collapsed into administration in exchange for an item
described as "probably the world's most expensive ruby."
Accounts show that the Wrekin ruby, known as the "Gem of Tanzania" was
bought in exchange for £11million worth of shares from Tamar Group, a
Derbyshire construction firm which later took overall control of
Wrekin.
The concern for the Wrekin's workers that you've expressed in your
posts is understandable - but whatever is this all about. Seems
murky, dunnit?
--
DB.
Having now spent a little time with several of the links that
Google's thrown up I'd suggest you first take a butcher's at this
(below) - which seems to sum it up. I suspect that it is RBS knowledge
of this that led them to demand the instant repayment of the £2.8
million overdraft.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/4992167/Hunt-for-11-million-ruby-as-owner-goes-under.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/admzlm
--
DB.
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